Shtreimel

[masbir]

First you write, that every answer will degrade, and a moment later you offer an answer, which clearly implies, that everyone else's answer will surely degrade CV, but you will provide the only good answer.

There are pictures of the FR in Poland, in the States of the FR with a spodik. Before, you wrote flately, that only in Poland he wore a shtriemal becuase of Minhag hmokem, (which from the sichas about the shtreimal the rabeiom wore in Russia, it is clearly contradicted) then, you came up, with a chidush, I never heard, about different type of shtrimlech. I want to know your source.

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by Jude
the questions about the streimel are fine, until we begin speculating as to the Rebbe's reasons

why is it my answer or else, masbir?
that's a gratuitous insult
my point, which you chose to ignore, is that providing reasons for why the Rebbe does anything is generally foolish at best and arrogant and un-Chasid like at worst, unless it reflects on the Rebbe's greatness, and has some basis in what the Rebbe said.

Your 'source' for the FR wearing a shtreimel in Russia is.......? The Rashab also wore a 'Spodek' why would his son change??.Me feels that I''ll have to wait for a source!
Actually I don't even think it was a'SPODEK' they wore, it looks like one though, but I have seen pictures of litvisheh rabonim from russia with a similar hat, and it must have been some sort of 'chosheveh' hat in russia, this is just my own 'shpekulattsyah'

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by poshut
The Rebbe wearing a crown?

Oy vey, vu zainin mir farfarin un farkrochin in our understanding of "Rebbe" and "Moshiach."

What do you want from the M's, they do not know any better!
One fine poster, with a record number of posts has even claimed that some people view the Rebbeim as peers, bring them down to simple levels chas vesholem, not realizing that the ones who have caused widespread zilzul are none other than the meshichisten, with their 'cult' like insanity

[yehonasan]

Not nice words Pretzel.

[poshut]

they should know better -- they have mashpi'im who know the truth, but are hiding it form their mushpo'im, b'maizid.

[Jude]

masbir, you don't seem in logical fine form today
you seem bent on insisting that I said something I didn't say
fortunately, the posts are here for us to read

as far as the Fr. and what he wore, that is what I learned and it could very well be wrong. I will try to pin down a source for you.

re wearing a streimel in Poland - look back and you'll see I deleted post #2. It should have said spodik.

[masbir]

Logic which goes against you is not fine, You have the right to think that way.

You dont have to change, in Lubavitch when they used shtriemel they meant spodik.

[leochana]

1) None of our Rabayim wore a shtriemel or spodik what we call today those terms, what the TZ. TZ. wore was also called a shtreimel those days. It seems that the Mitteler Rebbe wore also a shtrimel with a "peak" maybe something like the TZ"TZ or maybe like the shtriemel the "Ruzhiner kinder" wear from the famous story that the "peak" was wet from sweat. The Rebbe Rashab and the FR wore something which back then was also called "soivelne hittel" [look in minhogei purim in sefer haminhogim minhogei admu"r] roughly translated as "sable hat". The closest thing today is probably what is known as a "kolpik" worn by "rebbishe kinder" before marriage [like in vishznitz]. I think the FR's was on display in the library. I spoke to an individual in brookdale nursing home [next to the hospital] about 15 years ago, he was in his nineties and he remembered the Rebbe Rashab in Lubavitch. He told me that the Rebbe Rashab's "shtreimel" was about the same colour as his beard [reddish brownish]. Look also in Lubavitch vechayaleha.
2)The Rebbe Rashab was instructed by his father to wear the shtriemel only in Lubavitch.
3) THe FR also abided by that and that's why in Reb Elya Chaim's diary on the Rebbe's chasunah he makes a big deal about the fact that the FR put on the shtreimel for the chasuna [mashma the same shtreimel of lubavitch]
[see also first reshima where the Rashab told the FR "mazal toiv faren hittel, maybe it's connected.]
4) all rabayim wore white see reshimois of the Rebbe [look in maftaychois for exactly where].
5) in betzeil hachochmo in one of the yechidusen to harav yolles it's mashma the Rebbe didn't wear a shtreimel due to anivus see there for an interesting statement the rebbe said.
6) in 5730 the bocherim ordered for the Rebbe an exact replica of the FR's shtreimel for yud shvat. the Rebbe's response was keep it till i'll ask for it. I personally saw it in safekeeping status in REb Dovid raskin's office [it's probably still there].

[Jude]

You have the right to think that way.

because if it makes me feel good, then it's fine
if it boosts my self-esteem, then it's laudable
if I feel comfortable with it, that's commendable

come off it masbir!

[masbir]

all rabayim wore white see reshimois of the Rebbe [look in maftaychois for exactly where].

All wore white?

[masbir]

Follow this link to see the FR "shtreimal".

http://www.chabadlibrary.org/exhibit/ex8/eh1.jpg

[pretzel999]

thx mas, u can clearly see it's not a Polish Spodek

[yehonasan]

THANK YOU LEOCHANA. All I want is solid information to answer my questions. I am genuinely curious why Lubavitchers seem to dress so differently than other Chasidim -- different from the top down!

[pretzel999]

off topic, but I HEAR that top of the line shtreimels can cost five thousand$ and regular ones around 2 000$, and their is a poor mans version, known as a 'reggen shtreimel' for use in the rain (for a grand approx.)so the expensive one does not get ruined.
So I guess we are better off sticking to our hundred dollar hats!

[masbir]

But by them since the woman goes with a hat or something else, they dont need to buy a custom sheitel every once in while.

[pretzel999]

the ones who go only with a 'tichel' get the best deal!

[yehonasan]

I also joke that the Rebbe never asked his Chassidim to wear a Shtreimel b/c he knew that we could never afford them.

[pretzel999]

Originally posted by yehonasan
I also joke that the Rebbe never asked his Chassidim to wear a Shtreimel b/c he knew that we could never afford them.

Actually there is a story from R' Simcha Bunim Alter the gerer rebbe who died about ten years ago, that upon hearing that The Spodek manufacturers were raising their prices above what he believed was reasonable, he sent to tell them that He would be the first one to come into shul on Shabes with a hat if they dared do that! (most spodek wearers are Gerer chasidim, and spodeks are much cheaper than shtreimels..because of this story, and i guess the fur is cheaper to)

[yehonasan]

A friend's parnosso is preparing the strips of fur that are used to make shtreimels -- VERY EXPENSIVE and very labor intensive so this the reason for the high cost.

[shoyn]

i move that we all wear kaskets even cheaper and should be ok in the rain!

[Torah613]

I don't understand all the diyukim in this shakla vetarye (and the ensuing ruckus), but AFAIK:
In Lubavitch something like a shtreimel was worn.
Outside L something like a spodik was worn - like the FR wore in America etc.
In the diary of the FR when he was in EY, he makes a whole esek of his luggage being misplaced and having to wear a shtreimel Shabbos in Yerushalayim, even though he didn't wear one outside L.

[Jude]

sounds like somebody learned what I learned
what a relief

[masbir]

Torah,

Mheichen dantoni? Kaplan made a painting from the Rhsab with input of the Rebbetzin with a spodik.

[Torah613]

Maybe of the post L years?
I gave my mokor - the aforementioned diary.
(I am not a boki in the various variations of shtreimels, spodik etc., by "shtreimel" I assume is meant the wide ones, spodik the narrow taller ones).

[leochana]

Again I'll reiterate that I personally spoke to someone who saw the REbbe Rashab in Lubavitch. He told me 2 things.
1) He remembers the rebbe going to tashlich on RH, he was surounded by tall bochurim. [He said that the rebbe said he didn't want the goyim standing on the rooftops looking at him.]
2)the colour of the rebbe's "shtreimel" was reddish brownish and it seemed like his payois [side of the beard] which was the same colour seemlessly came out of the shtriemel.

I don't think there was a "shtriemel" in L and a Sp. everywhere else, because everywhere else they wore hats [except by the FR starting from the rebbe's chasuna he started wearing it again on shabbos and special ocassions like when he came to NY and citizenship].

mainyan leinyan beoisoi inyan did you know the FR wore a GREEN hat at times when he went on business trips?