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Unread 09-01-2002, 05:56 PM   #76
Jude
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I think the issue has to be reworded. There's no question that co-ed schools are not desirable, recommended (if not worse). Now what if that is the only option. There have got to be shluchim with answers from the Rebbe about this, as I'm sure this came up time and again. If shluchim were told by the Rebbe to send their children to these schools, then what effect did this have on them? The same question can be asked about shlichus in general! Surely it is not desirable to live in a place that is not a makom Torah. But if the Rebbe sends someone there, then what?
The Rebbe says you're either mashpia or being mushpa (influencing or being influenced). If you're doing the positive influencing, you are likely to be stronger in your convictions than someone who never has to contend with challenges to their convictions. If you're being mushpa ..
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:02 PM   #77
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BS"D The Rebbe's opinion on this matter is very clear from the letters I quote at the start of this thread.

Shlichus is another issue, discussed at length in other threads (in the Shlichus section).
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:06 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
If you're doing the positive influencing, you are likely to be stronger in your convictions than someone who never has to contend with challenges to their convictions. If you're being mushpa ..
And what if you are being mashpia and your children are being mushpa (R"L) as we see from some younger posters on this forum?
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:12 PM   #79
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Add this to the distinct possibility that some children are just not mature enough to be sent away from home at a young age, and need the social stimulation of being in a classroom (which they would not get with homeschooling)...
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:34 PM   #80
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Social stimulation? What, are they only children or do they have lots of siblings?
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:37 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebYid
And what if you are being mashpia and your children are being mushpa (R"L) as we see from some younger posters on this forum?
BS"D The Rebbe's opinion seems to be that the issue is not IF the child will be adversely influenced, but only HOW MUCH.
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Unread 09-01-2002, 06:41 PM   #82
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BS"D <<need the social stimulation of being in a classroom (which they would not get with homeschooling)...>>

IMO the adverse affects of mixed schooling far outweigh those of homeschooling.

Anyway, that is a moot point, becasue it is a HALACHIC issue, and to my knowledge, "social stimulation" is not a Halachic consideration.
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Unread 09-02-2002, 12:54 PM   #83
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<<are they only children or do they have lots of siblings?>>

ever looked through the Shluchim albums? ever notice that although most families have a number of children (if not many children), that in some families there are only one or two children (and I'm not talking about couples in their early twenties with babies)?
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Unread 09-02-2002, 04:56 PM   #84
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Just by the way, siblings don't usually fulfill a child's psychological need for peers.

Doesn't Halacha take psychological issues into consideration?
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Unread 09-02-2002, 05:18 PM   #85
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Home schooling is growing in the USA today. Do some research and you will see that the perceived "social problems" the home schooled child will face are largely a figment of the imagination of those who have no experience with home schooling.
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Unread 09-02-2002, 06:36 PM   #86
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BS"D <<Doesn't Halacha take psychological issues into consideration?>>

Well, it depends which issue. Many books and articles have been written on this.
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Unread 09-03-2002, 01:27 AM   #87
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A yungerman told me today that Rav Heller spoke to his smicha shiur and warned them that they would probably end up out of town and be moreh heter to send their kids to a mixed school, so he was letting them know that it is ossur from the possuk of Lo sosuru acharei livavchem viacharei eineichem. Please note: I did NOT hear this from Rav Heller himself.
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Unread 09-03-2002, 01:53 AM   #88
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Enough Chassidishe Shluchim DO send their children to mixed schools that the impression is of a non-ideal, but tolerable situation. (Usually the "mixed learning" ends by middle school or similar in these cases, but according to your post, that wouldn't make much of a difference). Is the Issur really SO strong?!?
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Unread 09-03-2002, 11:04 AM   #89
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BS"D <<Is the Issur really SO strong?!?>>

Uh, it's an issur min haTorah. Read the thread from the start for more info.
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Unread 09-03-2002, 04:55 PM   #90
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But many VERY Chassidishe Shluchim do this. There must be something they are relying on!
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Unread 09-03-2002, 05:09 PM   #91
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Until what age are they doing this?
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Unread 09-03-2002, 05:12 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
But many VERY Chassidishe Shluchim do this. There must be something they are relying on!
BS"D Not necessarily. It's just pragmatism.

Look, the Rebbe says that even goyim shouldn't have mixed schools!

The Rebbe says that such schools are clearly compromising Halacha, which, as the Rebbe says, only serves to add kerosene to the fires of assimilation.
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Unread 09-03-2002, 08:33 PM   #93
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Rebyid- most that I've seen are in mixed classes until around Bar/Bas Mitzva age.

Noahidelaws- I don't know... Many of these mixed schools are run by Lubavitchers... I think most Shluchim consult with a Rav and/or Mashpia before they would make a decision about Chinuch, and yet many of them rely on coed schools. I can't see such a large group overlooking such an important Inyan, if it is so... It's very hard to accept.
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Unread 09-03-2002, 08:53 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
I think most Shluchim consult with a Rav and/or Mashpia before they would make a decision about Chinuch, and yet many of them rely on coed schools. I can't see such a large group overlooking such an important Inyan, if it is so... It's very hard to accept.
Check out the mihu yehudi thread for the lowdown about how schools with goyim were founded in Russia. So that's also kosher, just because people who claim to represent Chabad founded them? And I might add that those schools are also mixed...
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Unread 09-04-2002, 04:42 PM   #95
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send their children to co-ed schools? how about shluchim running co-ed schools?
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Unread 09-04-2002, 06:21 PM   #96
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These coed schools have been around for a LONG time. Several of them have the name Achei Tmimim. The Shluchim running them have gotten Brachos from the Rebbe. The Shluchim's children attending have gotten Brachos from the Rebbe.

Noahidelaws- first of all, I find the adjective "claim to represent Chabad" very insulting. Like I said, I attended such a school myself. The director is definitely a Chossid, and the school has been around for well over 30 years.

I also think that there is a definite difference between mixing Yidden and Goyim or mixing boys and girls. Obviously, co-ed schools are not ideal (that's universally accepted), but I wouldn't go so far as to call them completely Treif.
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Unread 09-04-2002, 09:46 PM   #97
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I learned in a mixed school till 8th grade, and I think it was very good.

The Rebbe said that since there is no other way to have the school it could be mixed.
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Unread 09-05-2002, 01:37 PM   #98
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BS"D <<Noahidelaws- first of all, I find the adjective "claim to represent Chabad" very insulting. Like I said, I attended such a school myself.>>

Uh, sorry, I forgot that. I just looked back at your earlier posts and saw that. Please accept my apology.

<<I also think that there is a definite difference between mixing Yidden and Goyim or mixing boys and girls.>>

My point was: the argument that shluchim are infallible and their actions are beyond question is very weak, as we see that they even set up schools with gentiles.

<<The director is definitely a Chossid>>

And those who set up schools with gentiles are probably also otherwise Chassidishe people.

Question: was this school originally set up by Chabad, or just the director who was hired to work there is a Lubavitcher?
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Unread 09-05-2002, 02:24 PM   #99
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set up by Chabad, Achei Tmimim, etc.
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Unread 09-05-2002, 10:14 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
set up by Chabad, Achei Tmimim, etc.
I have a funny feeling that it was in new england<G>
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