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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:17 PM   #151
Jude
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Somebody brought the following sicha to my attention. It's in Sefer Ha'Sichos 5749, vol. 1, p.207, os 13-14:

It could happen that someone might think that when he has a question or a doubt in something regarding Torah, or regarding his avoda, or regarding his conduct in life in general - ken er yotze zain - by asking someone else, greater than him, and he need do no more than that. He spares himself the work by asking someone else, and throws the responsibility on the other fellow!

We have the principle and foundation, that Hashem gave every person the strength to toil with his own kochos (abilities), to seek an answer or a solution for his questions and doubts, and Chazal promise, "yogati u'matzasi" (I worked and I found) (and if you say, "I worked and did not find," don't believe him).

And even though we have the instruction, "lo ha'bayshan lomed" (a shy person does not learn), and "asei lecha rav" (appoint yourself a teacher) etc. - this is after he himself toiled and found the answers which are within his abilities; yet there are surely subjects which he does not (yet) understand on his own (especially in Torah which is "longer than the earth can be measured and wider than the sea"), and he should not be ashamed (and surely not to talk himself into thinking that he can answer everything on his own) and should ask someone.

Furthermore, the instruction of "asei lecha rav," is (not in order to absolve oneself from working on his own, but on the contrary, this is) a part of his avoda (and not of his rav's avoda): "asei lecha rav," including asiya lashon kefiya (asiya meaning to force) [ ...] he must go searching and appoint for himself a 'rav' with whom to consult etc.: and the "asei lecha rav" is in order to improve and broaden the chochma, bina, and daas of the talmid.
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Unread 01-12-2003, 12:28 PM   #152
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We can understand another thing from this:

Even when you have to go ask someone else, it must be by a "rav" who is appropriate for answering the question. For example, it makes no sense for a ben chamesh l'mikra (child) to ask a simple question in the pasuk of a great rosh yeshiva who is involved in learning deep topics in Shas etc.!

First of all, he takes the rosh yeshiva's time and takes him away from his primary involvement. Secondly, the child will lose out too because it will take time for the rosh yeshiva to tear himself away from his studies in order to deal with a child's question.

Rather, the child should turn with his question to a/his melamed who teaches children peshuto shel mikra, who has the time in addition to the main thing - that the melamed can more readily answer the child appropriately.

This is emphasized even more when one reaches 40 years, a time when one can relate to his teacher's wisdom, and one acquires a lev l'daas etc. - that one must, first and foremost, use one own's brains and one's own abilities to search and come up with an answer for one's questions etc. especially - when in addition to being able to relate to his teacher's wisdom through his own toil, he also gets help from Above, "Hashem gave you a heart to know etc.

And even when you need to ask, you must first ask someone who is appropriate for answering this question, and only when he can't answer it, do you ask someone greater than him etc.
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Unread 01-13-2003, 12:03 AM   #153
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BS"D Yeah... I koch in that sicha! Whenever anyone says to me - "have you asked your mashpia?" (it's happened often) I quote that sicha to them and say: I've learned the sources themselves and azoi shtait klor! the Rebbe wants us to think and learn for ourselves, not be carbon copies of our mashpia! And Without personal avoda, then the mashpia is not a mashpia and the mekabel is not a mekabel. (I am expecting a real barrage after this post...)

Last edited by noahidelaws; 01-13-2003 at 12:20 AM.
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Unread 01-13-2003, 12:18 AM   #154
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...of people agreeing?

You put it well, Noahidelaws!

In other words, Mashpia is a skill-based, not knowledge-based, relationship.
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Unread 01-13-2003, 12:24 AM   #155
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BS"D I would define a good mashpia as one with a Chasidishe intuition learned from a combination of book knowledge and life experience.
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Unread 01-13-2003, 12:39 AM   #156
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On a slightly different topic (with the same goal in mind), what is the story with a "peer Mashpia"? I've been hearing more about this concept lately; basically that you choose a friend that you respect, and in some cases the Mashpia relationship is mutual. I like the idea (it's easier to find a respected friend than an older person) but in some way I feel hesitant, because generally a Mashpia is older, with more life experience than you.
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Unread 01-13-2003, 12:46 AM   #157
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BS"D The Alter Rebbe considered himself the "talmid chover" (student colleague) of R. MM of Horodok. I.e. their level was closer to each other. But for this relationship to be mutual? I don't think that would work.
That suggestion is reminiscent of the switching of gender roles in modern society.
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Unread 01-20-2003, 11:12 PM   #158
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could the moderator please tell us where the rest of the conversation was moved to???
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Unread 01-20-2003, 11:19 PM   #159
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BS"D See finding a mashpia while climbing through the web of issues
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Unread 01-20-2003, 11:23 PM   #160
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wow, id like to compliment this sight [site, mod edition ] on the quick service , i t took less than 10 min to get an answer, great job!!!!
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Unread 01-20-2003, 11:27 PM   #161
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BS"D Especially with certain addicted members on...
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Unread 02-05-2003, 01:08 AM   #162
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choosing a mashpia

I think there are many teenagers out there who may embarressed to admit that they dont have a mashpia, like myself, what are some qualities that people look for when "aquiring" a mashpia?
and another question which has bothered me for a while, when u finally decide on a mashpia, what is the proper way to ask them?
Im just wondering if anyone can help me.
thanx
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Unread 02-05-2003, 01:38 AM   #163
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After you have "shmoozed" with him/her about topics and have received an "eitza tova", you can be direct and say," your answers and insight is really helping me see the light etc." Phrase it any way you like. Then go on to ask if he/she would be there for any future questions. See what the reaction is. If he/she is happy and open to you, at that point you may ask if they would consider being a mashpia to you. Do your research and take your time before you decide. Good luck to you.
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Unread 02-05-2003, 04:37 AM   #164
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Cool

{gasp}

not the slightest hint of food.....

are we dieting or something
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Unread 02-05-2003, 06:41 AM   #165
Dr. Yisroel
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A mashpiah must be one who is respected. Their words must be unblemished in your eyes.

Once you decide to take this person on as your mashpiah, you must listen to them, so be cautious in whom you choose. Make sure it is someone that can help you.

Often, the one who is at first glance totally out of your league is really the right one. The yetzer hara will do everything in his power to divert you and not let you attain a mashpiah.

You have the Rebbe's brachos. "Yegaiti umatzasy taamin"
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Unread 02-05-2003, 09:01 AM   #166
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What Dr. and Brook have said are important. An additional point is to find a Mashpia who has the time to devote to you. Many "popular" Mashpiim are simply sooooo busy that they can give you the time that you may want and/or need.
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Unread 02-05-2003, 12:19 PM   #167
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Good point Yehonasan-
I know many people who finally gave up on talking to their Mashpiim because it was just too hard to find time to talk!
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Unread 02-05-2003, 01:35 PM   #168
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In all the various Mashpia threads on the forum, I haven't seen a list of sources of the Rebbe's horaos on finding a mashpia.

Would someone be able to cite the sichos or igros where this inyan is spelled out. I would have to look them up on Otzar770, so please, no "Sichos Kodesh". Thanks.

Last edited by Chabad Friend; 02-06-2003 at 07:56 AM.
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Unread 02-06-2003, 02:05 AM   #169
BrookAve
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Downunder: You must be a navi! I am dieting. It is working. But Shabbos is coming and as you know I have a "cholent stomach".
With potato, lokshen and rice kugels baked by my lovely 18 year old daughter, how can I not try a sliver or two? And her chocolate cake is deeeelish! Now back to my carrot,celery,beet and spinach juice cocktail with a grapefruit chaser. MMMMM
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Unread 02-06-2003, 04:10 AM   #170
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Aw, I liked the more serious posts too! Even if they threaten your image...
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Unread 02-06-2003, 10:10 AM   #171
Dr. Yisroel
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I would also like to know what the Rebbe says about finding a mashpiah if someone is going to do the research.

Nowadays, people pay lots of money for a mashpiah. Time is money. I recently saw that you can hire a "Life Coach" online. Basically, a mashpiah but you pay him about $100 an hour. Why should I be your mashpiah if he is paying me $100 an hour to be his. Perhaps, I can find a dozen others to pay the same.
Wow. Maybe I can actually make a living doing something a like and am trained to do.
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Unread 02-16-2003, 01:57 AM   #172
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ye i also saw that type of "mashpia guy" dr. yisroel, but its funny b/c manis friedman is pretty well known for being a mashpia for many people and i remember how surprised he was when he heard that other people charge money for just being a shliach of the rebbe to a fellow yid, when being a mashpia!
I also think its pretty ridiculous, so without needing to pay life coach, i hope to find a normal mashpia who helps me be mekushar to the rebbe w/o being a money sucker.
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Unread 02-16-2003, 03:43 AM   #173
hunlly
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mashpia

i got a question. you posted how important it is to have a mashpia ........... so i got a q is it possible to have a mashpia and is it practical ;if you dont know anyone??
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Unread 02-16-2003, 03:45 AM   #174
hunlly
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sorry i missed typed i forgot to write mashpia on line . is it practical to have a mashpia on line?
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Unread 02-16-2003, 07:18 AM   #175
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why not?
It would probably be useful to know something about him/her in order to choose fairly (for your own benefit)
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