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Unread 09-09-2004, 09:59 PM   #51
BaisHamikdashBa
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

not that i agree... but to remind you who you are! not some shvartze playing with shorts and and a undershirt. (and spending money on the sweat things for your hands...)
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Unread 09-09-2004, 10:21 PM   #52
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

i asked this question already on this website but i was wondering are games okay to go for anybody?
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Unread 09-09-2004, 10:41 PM   #53
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

There is a thread on that, its actually "live" now. Check it out.
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Last edited by BaisHamikdashBa; 09-09-2004 at 10:47 PM.
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Unread 09-11-2004, 09:24 PM   #54
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaisHamikdashBa
not that i agree... but to remind you who you are! not some shvartze playing with shorts and and a undershirt. (and spending money on the sweat things for your hands...)
I mean these Bochurim are not putting on shorts, its just t-shirts. With wacky pictures on it, thats another story, bur a regular one, is it that bad?
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Unread 09-11-2004, 10:59 PM   #55
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gevurah
and then there is the infamous story about Shimshon Stock going to the ballgame instead of learning with the Rebbe.
He actually used to go to the movies, not a ballgame (I heard the story countless times from Shimshon himself).
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Unread 09-11-2004, 11:04 PM   #56
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shliachman
I mean these Bochurim are not putting on shorts, its just t-shirts. With wacky pictures on it, thats another story, bur a regular one, is it that bad?
I know but it reminds you that you... I dont ness. agree.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 10:43 AM   #57
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4. An example of "Know Him in all your ways" can be taken from the game of soccer.

When a child has studied Torah and he wants to go out and play ball, he should not be criticized. Rather, we must "educate the child according to his way," i.e. show him how he can play ball "for the sake of Heaven." Recreation contributes to his health which will, in turn, give him a greater capacity to learn Torah. Playing ball is like taking a pill. When someone is sick, he must take pills to regain his health. Is taking a pill good? In this context, yes. Similarly, is playing ball good? Since it contributes to the study of Torah, yes. The purpose of a Jewish child's life is to learn Torah and fulfill Mitzvos. Playing ball can also contribute toward this goal.[192]

Furthermore, the actual approach to the game provides a lesson. When a Jew plays ball with a non-Jew, the non-Jewish-child seeks a personal victory. In contrast, the Jewish child seeks the victory of Yiddishkeit. He wears Tzitzis, eats Kosher, and prays before he plays ball. This makes him play better. If he wins, he thanks G-d for his victory.

This lesson can help a child influence his parents. They also are faced with competition, for example, in business. An adult might think that rather than follow the prescribed pattern of, "from the synagogue, to the house of study, and then to business," it might be more profitable to go directly to business and minimize the time spent in study and prayer. The child can teach him: "In my limited sphere — under Bar Mitzvah age — I know that the prayers and the Mitzvos will bring me closer to victory. If I left out a line in prayer, or if, in the midst of prayer, I thought about ball, I will not succeed. Just as my success is dependent on Torah and prayer, so also is yours.

Since ball is being mentioned at a farbrengen, there are probably those who are beginning to whisper among themselves: How can one speak about ball in a farbrengen? And particularly on Shabbos, when "it is forbidden to play ball."

We can learn a lesson from ball. The Talmud Yerushalmi (Avodah Zorah Ch. 3, Hal. 1, also note commentaries) tells us that an eagle carried Alexander the Great into the heavens. From there the world looked to him like a ball. Similarly, the Zohar comments "the entire world revolves in a circle like a ball."[193]

In soccer the intent of the game is to propel the ball through a gate. Similarly, the ball, i.e., the world, has been given to every Jew with a similar intent. The Mishnah comments: "Each individual is obligated to say 'For my sake the world was created'." The world is given to each individual with the purpose that he bring it through the "gates of the King." There are many obstacles and difficulties that must be overcome. In soccer, the members of the opposing team try to prevent the scoring of a goal. Furthermore, they try to put the ball through the goal, "the opening of Gehinom." We all have similar challenges in our lives: These challenges must arouse in us the attribute of victory, a quality which activates the essence of the soul.[194] In soccer, the presence of the opposing team causes one to run and to jump — not to be content with slow, step by step, progression. Also, the game is won through the efforts of the feet, symbolic of deed and action, rather than the head. Surely the game must be played with thought. However, the most important aspect is deed and action. Similarly, in our services there are parallels to these concepts.

These remarks are not intended to take a person away from his studies and cause him to go out and play ball. That would be ridiculous. However, since there are children who, as of yet, do not fully appreciate the dearness of Torah and want to play ball, they should be able to do so "for the sake of Heaven." By "educating a child according to his way," i.e., taking something like soccer, which he enjoys, and showing him how it can be done "for the sake of Heaven," we assure that "even when he grows older he will not depart from it." (Furthermore, even those who have not played ball "for the sake of Heaven" can, as many in the past have become, G-d fearing scholars and even Chassidim. This is accomplished through the service of Teshuvah.) By explaining to the child the lessons he can learn from playing ball, he will understand that the purpose of playing the game and the purpose of his entire life is to progress higher in the service of Torah and Mitzvos.
http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books...glish/5/21.htm
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Unread 09-12-2004, 01:14 PM   #58
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Nice!! but it doesnt say why you cant use a t-shirt.
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Unread 09-12-2004, 04:01 PM   #59
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

I was in a CGI this past summer when the whole camp was going to a baseball game i had to ask the shlaich if i can stay back because i dont go. Now the question came up why do some ppl find it ok to go to games and why do some ppl not even realize that there is something wrong with baseball games, it is very simmilar to a movie theater. mixed seating and its just a form of intertainment that hashem gave to the guyim so they have something to do and not be bored. My principal once told me that the only reason hashem gave this "gift" to the guyim is so that if they are busy with something they wont oppress us yidin as much. I am just trying to understand why do some ppl not realize the problem with going to a baseball game
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Unread 09-12-2004, 06:09 PM   #60
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by byc88
My principal once told me that the only reason hashem gave this "gift" to the guyim is so that if they are busy with something they wont oppress us yidin as much. .
I think the FR said this...[the loshon goes something like this 'that the ameracan goy s jews just as much as the german? goy, just that hashem had rachmonus on the yiddin and made them have a 'taive' for kovod and sports'...]
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Unread 10-15-2004, 01:57 PM   #61
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

I know that there is things that shluchim go to games in order to affect on these type of people more that they could affect at any other times thereof.
Like the Hoirraois etc.
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Unread 10-31-2004, 07:18 PM   #62
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

The inyan (kuching in sports) was explained to me by a bachur as follows: Learning in yeshiva is very intense, and I don't want to "pop"...I don't want to go to a repressive (i.e.strict) yeshiva...and yeshiva x is very depressing, a bachur r"l killed himself there...I need to take my mind away from all that intense learning sometimes...
And another young man was chosen by an "outstanding girl"...Mrs. Chitrik's description...because he was chasidish but "normal" by going to baseball games...I don't neccesarily agree with either opinions, but I have been described by these bachurim as being "too serious"...Yeridah HaDoros, indeed!
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Unread 10-31-2004, 10:22 PM   #63
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Can someone tell me where the thread on whether you can go to a game or not is?
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Unread 10-31-2004, 10:50 PM   #64
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

I don't think it's a big deal that a yeshiva wants bochurim to wear white shirts while playing. If you keep one dirty shirt for playing it's not hard.
I think they want to make sure that the motives for playing are not to be like goyishe sports figures. When you can only play if your wearing a nike t-shirt v'chadoime I think it shows that you aren't playing for the excercise...
B'noigea montreal we used to sneak to the park once a week for a baseball game and based on that experience I think that it would be better for yeshivos to allow it so that it could be supervised i.e. done in a more chassidishe way. (Although a big part of the fun was having to make sure not to get caught.)
Also I think we have to pick our fights. Sports is a relatively benign grubkeit compared to other things going on in yeshivos. So if a mashpia farbrengs aboout sports when there are much worse problems he isn't talking to anyone. "I mean get real" is what a bochur would probably say.
I don't see anything wrong about a shliach going to game. Worse things happen at colleges than at games and we still send shluchim there, Veaderaba lechatchila. So I don't see it as being wrong (but I didn't read the thread on it yet I am willing to reconsider) In fact it can be a kiddush hashem.
Yankel Nosson you are right (for good or for bad) I have been to games and the only way to get through them is by talking, learning, eating, drinking, going to the bathroom vchu. I once caught up over a hundred pages in Rambam at a game.
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Unread 11-01-2004, 12:36 AM   #65
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A"kshoin
Can someone tell me where the thread on whether you can go to a game or not is?
Try this one Baseball games, etc.
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Unread 11-07-2004, 01:58 AM   #66
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Thanks
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Unread 11-08-2004, 10:41 PM   #67
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

According to a teacher of mine from high school, playing sports allows boys to work off a great deal of hormonal build up and channel those hormones more healthily than other options would allow.

Also, I am more than curious-there are really guys who go to Morristown for the sports? Because then we probably don't have much to worry about, since I wouldn't exactly confuse Morristown's sports facilities with Mayor Bloomberg's plans for the West Side Stadium in Manhattan.
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Unread 11-09-2004, 12:41 AM   #68
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

Need some clarification: Are we talking about PLAYING sports, or being involved in PRO sports?
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Unread 01-04-2005, 03:16 PM   #69
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Re: Bochurim Kuch in Sports!!!!

I second that thought: It seems this entire thread has been steered away from the original question. "Kuching in sports" does not have to mean playing sports or going to ballgames. I think the main question here is if it is ok to follow sports.

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Unread 05-04-2005, 01:40 PM   #70
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depends what "follow" means
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Unread 05-04-2005, 02:03 PM   #71
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Whenever there is a "kuch" in sport's it is a negative thing for a bocher (and for any jew),whether in the playing of the game or in the following of the game. A bocher (and yid's) "kuch" in life needs to be in torah and chassidus etc' (ve"chul mase'cha yi'hiyu le'shaim sha'mayim). Now playing sports is a different story which is sometimes needed for bri'yas haguf etc' but that is only a means to an end and not one's kuch.
(ur'rei maamer hasum nafsheinu bachayim, meluket gimmel)
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Unread 05-04-2005, 02:41 PM   #72
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[quote=Chabadnika]According to a teacher of mine from high school, playing sports allows boys to work off a great deal of hormonal build up and channel those hormones more healthily than other options would allow.

i think this is 110% true, and if it takes somewhat of a kuch -then ashrecha v'tov lach
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Unread 05-04-2005, 04:37 PM   #73
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and lisening to a game on the radio? what would you rate it?
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Unread 05-04-2005, 05:36 PM   #74
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I think thet generally it is wrong for a bachur to listen to a game on the radio do to tha fact that this shows your kuch in it it which is generally a no-no. although sometimes I can understand how after alot of pressure that one may have the listening to the game might just give just a little breathing time and rest which might help him in his studies after and then it might go under the catigory of kul maasecha yihiyu leshaim shamayim. (I think however that this generally is no the case with 90% of the people who follow these shtusim) I think that most people follow them since as a kid they did and they never grew out of it and went on to bigger and better things.(just my humbe opinion...but think how you will)
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Unread 05-11-2005, 12:12 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613
The way I heard Feller tell the story, it was with Herman Wouk, and first he was going to interview him on the plane, instead he learned the Rebbe's biurim on hagodoh with him (IIRC, it was 11 Nissan time, in 5732).
The story was also printed a while back in the KC.
yeh I heard the same thing.
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