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Unread 01-08-2003, 01:54 AM   #26
RebYid
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Can't be, MUST have been BY.
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Unread 01-08-2003, 03:56 AM   #27
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RebYid: Like the Rebbe exhorts us...
"Open your eyes!"
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Unread 01-08-2003, 05:02 AM   #28
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Sometimes you have to davka close them!
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Unread 01-08-2003, 05:25 AM   #29
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Well, yeah, for Tznius purposes...
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Unread 01-08-2003, 08:59 AM   #30
yehonasan
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Quote:
Originally posted by zaque36


rebyid, you think that it's shlichus thats causing this!?!?!?!

I think that many shluchim have been heavily influenced and brought down by the non-Jewish world. For example, I know shluchim who allow their children to read Harry Potter books, dress like goyim, and participate too heavily in other non-Jewish programs.

I could list other very negative behaviour of shluchim but I don't think that it would be productive.


As a result we have situations like this Shabbaton or BR students going to movies.

For sure, this kind of conduct by people who claim to be Lubavitch is NOT what the FR or the Rebbe wanted from their shluchim or chasidim.
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Last edited by yehonasan; 01-08-2003 at 09:02 AM.
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Unread 01-08-2003, 09:05 AM   #31
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shame on you for singling out shluchim!

I know plenty of non-shluchim (who stayed in cozy New York) that fit your description.
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Unread 01-08-2003, 11:11 AM   #32
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Shluchim are and should be held to a higher standard.
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Unread 01-08-2003, 01:00 PM   #33
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actually, it often happens that threads are recycled when new posters come on and don't know what's already available.

we can bear in mind the idea of looking down when comparing oneself to others about gashimus (i.e. seeing who has less than you, and being grateful for what you have), and looking up when comparing oneself to others about ruchinus (i.e. seeing how others are better, and what you can learn from them), BUT as refined and sheltered as other groups might be, they are NOT our standard. The Rebbe's standards are FAR HIGHER, and our goal should be to EXCEED that which we see around us.

anyway, as I posted previously, the comments were veering off the topic. I wasn't writing about the secular culture. In fact, educators among the groups that some of us highly praise, will tell you how they deal with some of the same narishkeiten, i.e. that even within tznius clothes (and note, I did not mention tznius at all here, it's not the point), there's an element, among some girls, of competition and wanting to outdo one another.
So what's new when the parents are the same way about simchos etc.? What surprises me is in the deterioration. People/kids have always been competitive, but ... it's different now. Either you're a certain age and you see it, or you don't.
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Unread 01-08-2003, 01:33 PM   #34
yehonasan
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I hope that this is on the topic -- i think it is.

There is a Bas Mitzvah Club that I believe comes out of CH. Anyway, you pay $ and your daughter who is Bas Mitzvah age gets a packet of info and other stuff. Anyway, in the packet there is an effective letter that addresses the ideas of "competing" with the Bas Mitzvahs and recommends who to do the Bas Mitzvah according to the Rebbe's desires.

Could something similar -- maybe a program -- could be developed that addresses the concerns raised?
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Unread 01-08-2003, 11:27 PM   #35
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I think a program to address competition would a good idea.

I usually dislike pamphlets given out- often they are not written for the target audience.
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Unread 01-09-2003, 08:46 AM   #36
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BY Network Tznius in Brooklyn has an excellent 40 lesson program to teach girls about ALL of the aspects of tznius -- in dress, speech, conduct and thought. It also emphasizes how being tznius beautifies a girl on the inside and outside. They have two sets of programs: 1) for teachers to teach girls and 2) for adults to learn together. Each lesson is about 10 - 15 minutes long.

This could also address the concerns expressed in this thread.
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Unread 01-19-2003, 12:38 AM   #37
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k -- the movie situation is a minority. Most girls wouldn't go to movies. The school offers A LOT in yidishkiet and chassidishkiet especially this year...it's definitely not the school's fault. It's the sense of insecurity that there is betweent he girls and the parents that aren't pressing hard enought have to strengthened.
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Unread 01-19-2003, 09:29 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by yehonasan
For sure, this kind of conduct by people who claim to be Lubavitch is NOT what the FR or the Rebbe wanted from their shluchim or chasidim.
I agree with whoever said this is a general issue of Chasidim.

And this is a slightly heavy judgement here. "who claim to be Lubavitch?" If you mean that they claim to represent the epitomy of Lubavitch and what Lubavitch should be, then you would have a point. But working towards becoming a Chosid, EVEN IF that work has been stymied at some point, does not automatically regress them to the point of only CLAIMING to be a Chosid!
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Unread 02-16-2003, 03:55 AM   #39
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im shocked jude you made a generalization about bais rivkah girls based on what one girls mom said. the story sounds like a ninth grade student and one who is atypical. yes girls might wear their best outfit in their closet, but to stand on line for manicures thats taking it too far. i think before you post such stories and comments find out how legetimate you generalizations are. take it from a pro. whats the point in trying to make someone look bad??

im suprised this should even be topic of convo.
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Unread 02-16-2003, 11:22 AM   #40
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If you re-read my first post, you'll see no generalization was made.
I wrote, "A mother told me about her daughter who went on the Beis Rivka Shabbaton for 9th, 10th, and 11th graders. She said girls went on shopping trips to be well-outfitted for the event, and stood on line for manicures. Any high school posters out there? Can you explain this?"

The mother was expressing her shock and dismay based on her daughter's report. I would have been happy to hear from many B.R. posters telling us that her daughter misrepresented what happened, but I didn't. Actually, in the three pages of this thread, not one B.R. girl posted until page 3 and the other poster didn't say the girl's report was inaccurate!
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Unread 02-24-2003, 07:20 PM   #41
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I was on BR shabbatton. I did not see a single girl that i knew wearing something new. Not that i know everyone, im sure that there were a handful of girls with new clothes. Wich could be for any reason.
Nothing is wrong with the girls dressing up, people dress up when the go places, i'm sure you all wanna look your best when you go to a simcha.
About the manicures, i saw a few girls with manicures. But so what, if they have the time and money? Girls in br are seen with manicures pretty often. The torah has nothing agianst nail polish as long as its not flashy.
also the girls pick up a lot of their competativeness from the adults in ch. ( im not including all adults, some are wonderful)
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Unread 02-26-2003, 07:02 PM   #42
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ok ok ok...this is one kvetchy thread...if the girls are wearing a light color nailpolish...there is nothing wrong...and so what if the girl wants to look all shtazy with a new outfit good for her...if shes the kinda girl who need to be seen for looking good...thats her i went on many a shabbaton and barely ever bought a new outfit...but if u feel the need why not? (if her parents approve who are u guys to dissaprove)
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Unread 02-27-2003, 06:21 PM   #43
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<<<Actually, in the three pages of this thread, not one B.R. girl posted until page 3 and the other poster didn't say the girl's report was inaccurate!>>>

btw jude, not e/o who posts actually comes out and says-yes, i am a br girl that went on the shabbaton. i happen to know s/o else who posted in this thread before that who is a br girl.
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Unread 03-03-2003, 10:35 AM   #44
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twidldeedum what makes this year different than other years?

I personally think that most girls grow out of it
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Unread 03-23-2003, 07:33 AM   #45
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u asked for a hischool girls opinion.
its typical of highschool girls to say they have no clothes or need a new wardrobe. theyg wantr to be accepted and liked. Teenagers still have to mature. Yopu as an older person may not understand it b/c imn ur times that would never happen but nowdays werte living in a whole different world and there is nothing wrong with that mother or her dqaughters and its typical highschool girl behaviour
by the way plz dont generalize tghe way you do b/c not everyone on thios thread is in a beis rivkah skewl or lives in crown heights some of us live miles away.
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Unread 03-23-2003, 11:18 AM   #46
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im a high school girl not in br but in a lubavitch school also miles away! basically what i wanna say is this: someone else mentioned these things have been discussed before over and over again. ok maybe they have been discussed in a slightly different way but generally yeah its all the same thing! in so many threads high schoiol girls, the way girls act, the things girls do is discussed. what i want to know is this, what is the point? by discussing how the girls wear short skirts, otr the girls are too lively, or the girls where manicures, is that gonna change anything? is that gonna make the situation better? with all due respect probably not! if u think it is wrong and want it changed why not go intoo the schools, speak to the girls on a one on one basis that they will be interested in, make programs for them that excite them so they wont have the need to go to movies, teach them about tznius in a way that they will want to wear a longer skirt!! im not sayimng it is an easy job but what i am saying is that it doesnt help to moan and complain about everything always, it helps to get up and do somethoing about it! i know in my community everyone moans and complains about everything, the parents especially moan, but yet they do nothing for us girls and therefore we have no interest! if they would stop moaning and start doing there would be amazing results but when u always focus on the bad you make the girls want to divulge even more into the bad!
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Unread 03-24-2003, 08:39 PM   #47
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I agree with you 100% in my opinion there is sooo much in chassuidus girls especially don't know because they don't learn why should a high shool girl (with the amount of knowledge given toher) want to do what's right why not have fun and go to movies why work hard?

they dunno...
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Unread 09-06-2005, 01:15 PM   #48
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that is not neccesarily true about all BR students. lots of my friends did not go out specifically to get manicures. some of us took our better looking clothes with us b/c they wanted to look good. i dont think theres anything wrong with that.
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Unread 06-05-2006, 12:06 PM   #49
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Question huh??

what's wrong with getting manicures?? and what's with 'no place whatsoever (is that really one word?) with high school girls' . so it's okay after high school?? what school frobids makeup?? in school it's an infraction of the uniform, but out??


and manicures have no place whatsoever for high school girls; I put it in the category of makeup which the school forbids.
One can question whether adults should spend money to trim their kelipos, but that's for another discussion .[/quote]
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Unread 06-05-2006, 12:10 PM   #50
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Question huh??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashpuz
I agree with you 100% in my opinion there is sooo much in chassuidus girls especially don't know because they don't learn why should a high shool girl (with the amount of knowledge given toher) want to do what's right why not have fun and go to movies why work hard?

they dunno...
ditto 4 me. but what i'm confused about is why i didn't hear the word tznuis until i hit freshman year? doesn't it apply from age 3??
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