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Unread 01-17-2010, 11:53 AM   #201
ktonton
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Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
BS"D <<And in general coed school is not against Torah per se. and its not an Issur deiroiseh or derabonin per se. >>

Again, I am utterly flabbergasted.

This involves a clear issur deoiraisa. In reality, there is no need to explain this, because I have already quoted over and over elsewhere that any influence which arouses immoral thoughts is forbidden mideoiraisa according to the posuk of Lo sosuru acharei levavchem ve'acharei ainaichem, on which Chazal say: “ve'acharei ainaichem – zu zenus (this is a thought of immoral relations)”. And the Sefer HaChinuch says that this is one of the six constant Mitzvos that apply equally to women too. And how are such thoughts aroused? “The evil inclination only controls a person by that which his eyes see.” (Sotah 8a)

And it is self-evident that, especially in the teenage years when the hormones are raging, coming into daily, close contact with the opposite gender, as is inevitable in any co-ed school, involves regular transgression of this prohibition for both boys and girls.
Should I have to bother proving something which is so obvious?

<<Therefore what is the difference if he stays in the Jewish school or moves to the non-Jewish school (in the way you view it)?>>

The difference is very simple: in the mixed school, he is under certain, constant attack from his Yetser through constant contact with girls, and in the segregated goyisher school, that is not the case.
[***]

First think i'll mention, is to my knowledge, only rambam paskens that lo sasuru is anything other than an asmachta b'alma (see the beit yosef in even haezer 21), second, it does not follow that one who is accustomed to being in such an enviornment is constantly being michsholed, it is quite likely that he is not being michsholed anymore than he would be anywhere else, even in an all boys school. the trend is much clearer for those who have always been in an all boys school.

So no, it involves no clear issur deoraisa, or derabannan, and the advice should fit the individual. If he is doing well in school and growing in his yiddishkeit there, we should leave him alone, unless a special opertunity arises.

Last edited by Ahrele; 01-17-2010 at 11:58 AM. Reason: No need to get personal
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Unread 01-17-2010, 11:57 AM   #202
ktonton
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Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
No, Meshulam, I don't know the details of the school. But there were many bedieved things done all over the world in many areas. That doesn't change the Rebbe's words cited above that in any normal situation this type of education is against halocho, middos tovos, and (much less imp't in comparison) academic achievement.
you know i've heard it said by lubavitch Rabbanim, better for a young child and young teen (thirteenish) to be friends with girls who are upright and g-d fairing (and hence a good influence) than to be either friends with noone or friends with boys who are not such a good influence?

I would shudder to think of the influence that most boys would recieve in a non-religious boys only school. How do i know? because i know people who have been there, and a more corosive, harmful, and downright dangerous group you will never find.

secular boys in all boys schools, tend to be monsters.

the point being that one does not need to set a fixed guideline, because the people who are dealing with are generaly yotzi min haklal to begin with (its one thing that makes it more likely for them to make teshuva so young) and hence every case needs intensive, personalized, and very special guidance. rules of thumb do not help here.
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