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Unread 03-12-2003, 08:37 AM   #101
quest
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i agree with you that counsilers sometimes are too into the listening that they dont give you solutions but one of the main forms of recovery is discussing the problem.i also believe that that is a sweeping statement and that many counsilors do give you advice!! i also still believe that when there are problems such as death in a family or trauma debriefing is needed you have to go to someone proffesionally trained to get help!!!
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Unread 03-12-2003, 02:08 PM   #102
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Yes, some people do, but EVERYONE needs to deal with death at one time or another, and it's a pretty sweeping statement to say that G-d created us with an inability to deal with it!

All a counselor can do is try to help you redefine your attitude towards death, and show you that you can get past it. A Mashpia, if he or she is up to it, can do the same thing.
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Unread 03-31-2003, 04:02 PM   #103
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THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN

A RELIGIOUS THERAPIST

AND A THERAPIST WHO IS RELIGIOUS by Baruch Shulem

This lack of fit between personal and religious values and those of therapy has been a great concern to me. In my years as a religious therapist I have found a significant difference between a religious therapist and a therapist who is (also) religious. The therapist who is religious will be trained professionally but has learned to keep his religion out of his work. He will of course not openly violate Jewish law in this practice (e.g. encourage a client to marry out of the faith) but his therapy is not guided by religious values, goals and vocabulary. His basic view of man is based on his professional style of talking and not those he learned in his religious studies. He may often find Jewish quotes (words) which can be made to be compatible with his professional model. These he will readily use when needed as dictated by his professional model. The relation between religious beliefs and therapeutic behavior is basically pragmatic. The professional criteria determine material when and if to utilize religious. His understanding of his client, the language is uses (particularly with colleagues) and most important of all the goals of therapy are predetermined by secular theory.

In strong contrast, a religious therapist subjugates all aspects of his life and actions to Torah laws, values and vocabulary. Just as he would investigate the kashrus (legal requirements) of the food he eats, and the potential conflicts involved in reading modern literature he will critically inspect the style of talking of therapy to determine if it is consistent with Torah principals. In my own case I had to re-examine my professional style of talking of working after I became an observant Jew. I had been originally trained in classic long term individual psychodynamic therapy. After a serious evaluation, I found that it presents serious conflicts with traditional religious values.

A short but telling example of how technique can be in conflict with Torah law is in order. Torah law prohibits talking negatively about others. The therapist who is religious will seek a blanket exemption from this injunction in order to delve into history, explore negative feelings, etc. because the style of talking requires this type of behavior. The religious therapist would question the validity of the therapeutic need for such a (forbidden) activity on both empirical and religious grounds. The religious reason is that if the Torah and the Sages clearly said that it not desirable to talk this way it means that it is not healthy. A style of talking that encourages this behavior negates this basic religious principal and indicates it is not healthy to behave this way. This understanding would lead the religious therapist to choose a style of talking that attempts to avoid this type of forbidden activity both on religious terms and health terms.

Both the therapist who is religious and the non religious therapist at this point are probably asking themselves whether this approach of religion first means that therapeutic effectiveness must be sacrificed in the name of religiously? This can be answered by the extensive research that indicates that most professional models are equivalent in effectiveness. That being the case, a therapist should therefore focus on the match between his values and those of the therapeutic style of talking he uses - as well as the values of the client.
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Unread 04-01-2003, 03:30 AM   #104
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very true. but look at it this way, most ppl during the day talk badly about ppl, and do many things which arent according to torah law. doing this in a therapist room is the same thing(as u say) but at least here it isnt channeled in a bad way!!! its being used to fix yourself!! ie: if u are anyways going to tell sone this stuff let it be a therapist who knows how to help u.
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Unread 04-01-2003, 04:01 AM   #105
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In Judaism the end doesn't justify the means.
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Unread 04-01-2003, 11:08 AM   #106
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well it should
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Unread 04-01-2003, 03:01 PM   #107
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when it comes to lashon hara there are times it is permissible, even mandatory, to speak negatively about someone when there is a "to'eles" (a constructive purpose) and certain conditions are met
consult your L.O.R. (local Orthodox Rabbi)
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Unread 04-02-2003, 08:32 AM   #108
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so in that case the article doesnt apply
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Unread 04-02-2003, 02:19 PM   #109
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you need to study the laws to know when and how to apply to them, they're very specific
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Unread 06-29-2003, 12:45 PM   #110
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i know someone who needs therapy badly as she really has a lot on her shoulders which isnt going to go away unless she talks to someone and she wont talk to anyone she knows so according to halacha is it ok for her to talk to a therapist and get help- if not i give up on judaism
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Unread 06-29-2003, 01:04 PM   #111
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reread post 107
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Unread 08-17-2003, 06:34 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
Is anybody here saying that the Rebbe Rashab was in need of counseling and so he consulted with the premiere therapist of the day?
this whole inyan is not for "anashim k'erkeinu" to understand -
and this is y many held that it should had not have been published in the reshimot.
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Unread 11-25-2004, 01:16 AM   #113
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Re: Is counseling for us?

i know this is an old thread but can someone clarify exactly what the Rebbe's opinion on counseling and medication for psychological reasons, ie clinical depression actually is?
(please name sources if you can)
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Last edited by itkaffya; 12-14-2004 at 01:29 AM.
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Unread 12-14-2004, 01:29 AM   #114
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Re: Is counseling for us?

NU!!! there is no one in this WHOLE site who knows what the Rebbe's opinion on shrinks and antidepressants is?!?!
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Unread 12-14-2004, 02:00 PM   #115
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Re: Is counseling for us?

Maybe we can make an exception for you!
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Unread 12-14-2004, 07:12 PM   #116
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Re: Is counseling for us?

are you implying something!?!?!
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Unread 12-14-2004, 09:52 PM   #117
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Re: Is counseling for us?

If necessary, do it!

As a long-term solution, I am under the impression that it is not strongly encouraged, but especially in a case of clinical depression, where the immediacy of the intervention is more important than the quality of such, I believe the Rebbe would encourage one to go.

You may also be interested in hearing the Rebbe's general opinion on doctors and medicine: Ask a doctor who is a friend.
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Unread 12-14-2004, 10:51 PM   #118
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Re: Is counseling for us?

IIRC the Rebbe would stress the importance of having a frum doctor\counselor for these matters.
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Unread 12-18-2004, 08:10 PM   #119
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Re: Is counseling for us?

I'm posting this before reading the entire thread so there might be some repetitions.

The worries about going to a regular therapist are that the doctor might not understand what a frum person is talking about.

The worries about going to a frum doctor is that he very likely knows your family/friends/teachers etc. and one might not feel comfortable.

It's a big dilemma.

Now,time to read the whole thread.
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Unread 12-18-2004, 09:17 PM   #120
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Re: Is counseling for us?

I think it mentions something about it in mind over matter....
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Unread 12-28-2009, 09:39 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavLub View Post
The explanation given by Moshe Rabbeinu as to why Avrohom Avinu laughed, that "even Holy flesh is still flesh," and the rule that "even a soul of Atzilus, is affected by the experiences of the body," are applicable ONLY to those souls of Atzilus like Avrohom (and the Maggid, BEFORE he became a Nasi). Moshe and the Nesiim, on the other hand, are on the level that the body is totally battul to the soul, and can have no untoward effects. Any appearance to the contrary, is purely a sign of a voluntary descent to the level of our world, for the sake of elevating it and bringing the G-dly reality further downward into Tachtonim.
In other words, a neshomo which reality trascends tzimtzum ho'rishoin doesn't feel any ta'anug like the laughter of Avrohom Ovinu?
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