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Unread 06-11-2002, 10:09 PM   #1
noahidelaws
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Question How do YOU think the teens section could be made more appealing to teens?

BS”D Elsewhere Torah613 wrote:

<<If the forum was helping kids who are ANYWAY using the internet, and have problems, maybe it's OK. But a normal bochur in yeshiva should be on the internet ?? Why ??>>

To which ChachChach responded:

<<The level of this site is not exactly on par with your average bored teenager.

If you're really trying to cater to the crowd who needs help, the tone would be different.

But since the tone is what it is, it's attracting that type of people, ie, the more chassidish crowd.>>

To which I responded:

<< I think the site is trying to attract EVERYONE, but also catering specifically to teens, hence the teens forum. But that is not for this thread...>>

To which ChachChach responded:

<< If this site is trying to cater to the teens, then its doing a sad job.

The level of this site is not for the average teen, unless they're a teen who is into philosophical discussions.>>

So it seems that there is dissatisfaction with the tone of the “Teenagers” section of the forum.

So I think the question must be asked, especially to the teens who log on this site:

Please tell us: do YOU think that there is something significantly lacking in this site in general and specifically the teens section? How do YOU think this section could be made more appealing to teens?

I’m sure the moderators will really appreciate your comments.

Last edited by noahidelaws; 06-12-2002 at 05:03 AM.
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Unread 06-11-2002, 10:24 PM   #2
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Do YOU think the moderators are interested in knowing this? Who says they're interested in appealing more to teens?
The crowd's a bit too diverse for it to really work with teens, though it's been tried...
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Unread 06-11-2002, 10:56 PM   #3
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BS"D <<Who says they're interested in appealing more to teens?>>

I think we should be dan lekaf zechus (judge favourably).
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Unread 06-12-2002, 12:55 PM   #4
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I think its been discussed.

If I recall correctly, the bottom line was that we're trying to reach EVERYONE, therefore, the teens dont get special accomodations.

Anyway, as hard as you try, this site has a certain level. As someone once told me, the average teen doesnt have the kup nor the patience. They have other issues that concern them.(my apologies to anyone who gets insulted. I dont mean to insult, I'm just trying to express my feelings)
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Unread 06-12-2002, 08:58 PM   #5
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BS"D << the bottom line was that we're trying to reach EVERYONE, therefore, the teens dont get special accomodations.>>

Could you refer me to the thread where this was discussed? Thanks. In any case, I don’t see why the rules of the rest of the forum need affect the rules of the teens section.

This has to be discussed with a mashpia-type person. If he says thinks that the rules should be more relaxed, the only remaining issues are Halachic. Perhaps Halachic reasons could be found to make certain rules more relaxed in this section? You never know until you ask.

<<the average teen doesn’t have the kup nor the patience. They have other issues that concern them>>

Is the reason you are saying that the issues that concern teens cannot be discussed here because of the explicit nature of those issues?

It seems that you think that the Relationships and Youth at Risk Threads are not doing the job they are supposed to, or at least not to your satisfaction.

If so, is there ANY solution you can think of to create similar threads and moderating them more freely, in a way that will be popular among the target audience you speak of, but will not breach certain Halachic standards of acceptable speech (lo sosuru etc.)?

The bottom line seems to be that if it is teens we are trying to attract, and we must achieve that goal, and Hashem wants us to because He has created this situation, there MUST be a way to do so without compromising Halacha.

<<I dont mean to insult, I'm just trying to express my feelings>>

I’m sure the moderators and others value your candid comments and are not offended in the least.
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Unread 06-12-2002, 10:24 PM   #6
proud2blub
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there r alotta teen readers that i know of, they just arent posting. so u guys are reaching out, u just dont see it.
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Unread 06-12-2002, 10:42 PM   #7
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BS"D If they are not posting, IMO that shows that they are not really involved in the site, although they may benefit from it by reading it. Something needs to be done to make it attractive to them such that they will want to post too.
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Unread 06-12-2002, 11:03 PM   #8
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Well, the truth is that getting all involved in posting about "issues" isn't necessarily going to help most teens. Take a look at frumteens (the other one) and you'll notice that while just about every issue under the sun is discussed, most aren't really resolved in the long run. A person reads it, thinks "interesting," and then moves on. It isn't all it's made out to be...

And yes, there definitely are Halachic considerations and others--see RavLub's post in the Relationships thread. The main thing is, the whole level of the forum and the level of the posters is simply not basic enough to appeal to the average teenager.
(And then there's the question if you even WANT to "hook" a teen to this for life .)

<<It seems that you think that the...Youth at Risk Threads are not doing the job they are supposed to, or at least not to your satisfaction.>>

The Youth at Risk thread is geared for teenagers?! It's more like geared for all the adults to discuss the problems of teenagers, and how it came about and why and what can be done ETC.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 03:29 AM   #9
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BS"D <<Take a look at frumteen (the other one) and you'll notice that while just about every issue under the sun is discussed, most aren't really resolved in the long run. A person reads it, thinks "interesting," and then moves on. >>

So you think that no significant improvement from discussing these matters can be reasonably expected?

In that case, I suppose the question that should be asked is: do the teen readers of the relationships thread feel that it has benefited them or not? Do they feel that it has been detrimental to them? Do they have any ideas for similar threads to discuss such issues?

<<The main thing is, the whole level of the forum and the level of the posters is simply not basic enough to appeal to the average teenager.>>

It seems that by basic you mean unsophisticated and non-academic. Okay, that is a separate concern from the “sensitive issues” issue. Are you suggesting that I, like, cut the fancy English and talk normally? That would be asking a lot...

<<And then there's the question if you even WANT to "hook" a teen to this for life .>>

I think the assumption was that our target audience isthe kind that would otherwise be associating with unsavoury people and engaging in "at risk" behaviours, and that if they could get “hooked” in this site, that would be the biggest blessing for them. But for those who are not "at risk", this site may indeed be problematic...

<<The Youth at Risk thread is geared for teenagers?! It's more like geared for all the adults to discuss the problems of teenagers>>

I stand corrected, you are 100% right, it is not geared for teenagers AT ALL. So maybe the teen section should be divided in half: one part directed to the teens themselves to chat and give one another support, and the other directed to the “adults” to moan and groan that oy, isn’t the state of the youth today so terrible?

Last edited by noahidelaws; 06-13-2002 at 03:32 AM.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 12:51 PM   #10
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i feel the reason why most teens dont post is cuz they dont feel there "smart enough" like this site is on a very high philisophical level. also people get bashed down alot here, every word they say is attacked...... if u know what i mean
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Unread 06-13-2002, 07:50 PM   #11
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I ditto that, I think that they don't post bc they are afraid that their post will be ripped apart by older and more knowledgeable posters on this site.
Maybe people over a certain age should stay out of the teenagers thread or maybe start using a more gentle and nonjudgmental approach.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 08:04 PM   #12
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Hi All

Looks like your waiting from some comments from us ;-)

Here goes:

1) We want to appeal to everyone. Teens Included

2) I think teens DO have the patience to read the stuff, and to reply if they wish. If it interests them they will take the time out

3) Maybe we need to try and concentrate on making the posts in the Teen section attractive and easy reading? As you say, I don't think it's the section to start going "lofty" in. On the other hand, a bit of both will do no harm

4) Jac - we are interested in EVERYONE'S comments and feedback!

5) noahidelaws - I don't think we are here to drop our standards, BUT maybe there is a way we can make the teen section more free flowing and interesting. I tried it with a lot of success. If all members took part then it'd be great.

6) proud2blub - Correct. From our statistics we can see that there are MANY more people who come to the site, than actually post.

7) noahidelaws - Not at all! Not all people want to post. As I keep on pointing out, it doesn't matter to us if someone has ZERO posts, or over a thousand posts! If they are gaining from the site, then that is all that matters!

8) The point of the site being on a "high" level keeps on coming over. Do you all think we need to concentrate some efforts on making sure the teen section stays on a teen level in both the content and subjects?

OK. I hope this posts starts the discussion flowing, and more importantly....brings out positive results!

Thanks

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Unread 06-13-2002, 08:44 PM   #13
ChachChach
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About #2-the thing is, if its too lofty, no one is interested in reading it. Also, as someone pointed out-everyone is basically very busy telling teens why they're messed up/why its their imagination that they're messed up...

I think if the posters tried to go a bit easier on the teens who post, it would go better....

Oh, and about #8-I think that if everyone would try to keep the discussion in the practical realm, it would get lofty, but good lofty, like practical lofty. Not just like lofty as in lofty-as-where-the-angels-dance, but....I think you get the point And less lofty has nothing to do with bad grammar.

Okay, I guess its time for everyone to start telling their friends about this site, so we can start solving problems
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Unread 06-13-2002, 08:48 PM   #14
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BS"D <<noahidelaws - I don't think we are here to drop our standards>>

I never said that I just thought that that was what ChachChach meant.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 08:53 PM   #15
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You dont compromise on Halacha.

However, you do have to go easy on someone who's just starting to question the actions their doint. Notice I didnt say compromise. You want them to reach a high level. But dumping that on their heads the second they start to seek help is going to scare them away (imo), not help them.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 08:59 PM   #16
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BS"D I didn't say I thought you said to compromise on Halacha in the strict sense, but to find some sort of heter (dispensation) under the circumstances. This is exactly what appears to have already been done with the relationships thread, and based on that precedent, such issues could be discussed in other similar threads.

As I wrote clearly in post#5: <<The bottom line seems to be that if it is teens we are trying to attract, and we must achieve that goal, and Hashem wants us to because He has created this situation, there MUST be a way to do so without compromising Halacha. >>
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:15 PM   #17
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OK. So let's get on with it!!
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:27 PM   #18
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<<As I wrote clearly in post#5: <<The bottom line seems to be that if it is teens we are trying to attract, and we must achieve that goal, and Hashem wants us to because He has created this situation, there MUST be a way to do so without compromising Halacha. >>

But there must be a way to gradually reach that level too, no?
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:30 PM   #19
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BS"D Sorry, I don't know what you mean by gradually.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:46 PM   #20
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Okay, lets take a specific example. (Someone I know spoke to me about this, so its a real life example, kay?)

Lets say you have a teen who's coming to this site, and they're coming along with excessive baggage, be it a troubled relationship with their parents, or problems at school, or problems with interactions with the opposite gender.

So they come here, curious to see what its all about. Suddenly Bam! They're hit at all sides. Apparently, the language they're speaking is wrong, the way they've been educated is wrong, the goals that they have in life is wrong, the way they move and act and think and speak and breathe-everything about them is totally way off.

Now some may argue, yes, if that's true, then let them change!

But the truth is, someone like that would have to change EVERYTHING to live up to the expectations of this site. And that's too much for them. Instead of being encouraged to gradually rise from level to level, they're told, nay, its DEMANDED of them to reach the peak right away.

Which isnt exactly realistic.

So what does end up happening? They ever so quietly leave this site, with a slight feeling of guilt (which is quickly strangled).

Does that make sense?
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:51 PM   #21
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OK. I'm going to IY"H concentrate my efforts on the Teen section of the site. I had a lot of success in the past when I did this, so I guess I'll try again. Please PM/Email me all your ideas and suggestions. We need some good topics. Please try and get as many people involved, and TRY and keep the conversation flowing, without too much excess.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:56 PM   #22
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BS"D <<Does that make sense?>>

Yes, I think I see what you are saying now.
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Unread 06-13-2002, 09:57 PM   #23
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Good. So let's get going!
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Unread 06-14-2002, 12:10 PM   #24
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aShliach, you could probably email him at sholom@chabadtalk.com.
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Unread 06-17-2002, 07:09 PM   #25
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why are there some things blocked from being posted? if teens think it's necassary to discuss it in an open, and yet sorta secretive way, why stop them from opening up the question?
i think one way to appeal to teens is to ask specific teen related questions like you said. also, talking about the teens as if they arent reading this kinda turns people off. yo, we are here, dont talk about us like we are not.
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