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Unread 01-22-2004, 10:29 PM   #76
Leayis
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source? i think i gave the source. chassidishe farbrengens.
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Unread 01-22-2004, 10:45 PM   #77
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Unread 01-22-2004, 10:57 PM   #78
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i meant chassidshe mashpeeim
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Unread 01-22-2004, 10:59 PM   #79
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They all thought the Rebbe wouldn't be nistalek. Maybe they are wrong here as well?

I heard a Lubavitch Rov speak about this topic. He said that people won't give up the idea that the goal of Lubavitch is to be mekasher yidden with the Rebbe because it provides inspiration. It gives people a concrete reason to go to places like India, etc.
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Unread 01-22-2004, 11:13 PM   #80
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lambda,

thats where abisel sechel comes in, to desipher between shtus and chassidus. and in the case of the histalkus, if a mashpia who said that the rebbe would never be nistalek and then after gimmel tamuz was not ready to admit that he made a mistake thats the mashpia i wont listen to any more. but quite honestly i have no problem with mashpieem and chassidim who beleived before gimmel tamuz that gimmel tamuz would not happen, i have a problem with those who say after gimmel tamuz that it did not happen.
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Unread 01-22-2004, 11:15 PM   #81
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IOW before gimmel tamuz it was a healthy emunah that unfortunately did not come to pass, after gimmel tamuz it is an amunah of shtus.
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Unread 01-22-2004, 11:16 PM   #82
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Perhaps I should have written my original statement differently. They said that it *couldn't* happen, not that it wouldn't. Wouldn't you agree that this is a different kind of error?
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Unread 01-22-2004, 11:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis

but quite honestly i have no problem with mashpieem and chassidim who beleived before gimmel tamuz that gimmel tamuz would not happen, i have a problem with those who say after gimmel tamuz that it did not happen.
That is a very good point. One doesn't think about what will happen when the usual course of life happens. We all hope Moshiach would come first e'bulah movis l'netzach.
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Unread 01-22-2004, 11:51 PM   #84
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BTW, "Hult" means "Love" in A certain dialect of Yiddish (not Treasure).
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Unread 01-23-2004, 09:05 AM   #85
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i am not sure what you mean by "couldnt". Does it mean that the rebbe's guf kodosh works differently? i dont think the mashpeeim who said the rebbe couldnt be nistalek meant that. i think what they meant was that it is an impossibility because they were so sure that moshiach will be the nosee hashviee with out the heelem vihester of a histalkus. they were wrong and they admitted it. but i think it was a healthy emunah.
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Unread 01-23-2004, 02:48 PM   #86
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the source Leayis, and everybody else, is the Rebbe himself. see Igros Kodesh, vol. 3 p. 54. But being mekasher Jews to the Rebbe is about Hiskashrus, not Love.
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Unread 01-24-2004, 06:56 PM   #87
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Quote:
Quote:
[i]Originally posted by iamachassid[i]

so if your rebbe is dead what makes you a chassid?

Originally posted by RebMoshe


You take another Rebbe, that makes you a chasid.
"Ma zaroi bechaim af HU BECHAIM " !

"What his offsprings are alive so too HE IS ALIVE " !


It is in Bold because when the Rebbe said this he screamed out those words......
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Unread 01-24-2004, 11:00 PM   #88
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Love after death

Quote:
Originally posted by RebMoshe


How can one 'feel' the love of a man who is not alive?
Even though this has nothing to do with the Rebbe as pointed out by many ,for vairous reasons , i decided to answer the question anyhow , just to show that even from where you/he is coming from there is NO place for this question Al pi torah ....

There are many Mokoros in Torah that i can bring , but i will just bring one random one......

In Pirkei Avos perek 5 Mishna 19: "every love that is hanging on something if the thing that it is hanging on is 'botul' nullified the love becomes void ,but a love that is not hanging on something it is not nullified [become void] forever.........."

(the Mishna itself should be enough but....)
The Midrash Shmuel on this Mishna explains that any love that is "chumri Vgufni" is coarse and bodly it is inpossible for it to be forever being that when the body is gone the love is gone..."but a love that is not hanging on something , is not Void forever because IT STAYS AFTER DEATH ......

The concept of these two types of love [the bodly and soul] are explained in Rashis Chochmo and Tanya and many other places.....


(if there is a [valid] "problem" with this Mokor a would be more then happy to provide another one )
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Unread 01-25-2004, 03:13 PM   #89
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I agree with the Rebbe that ma zaroi bachaim af hu bachaim. The people here definitely think think that they, the children, are definitely alive. But the Rebbe was wrong (?!) about his predictions on 3 Tamuz, 3 Tamuz happened and so according to these people the Rebbe is no longer alive. So who and where is their Rebbe and how can they have feelings for him if he's no longer alive? Again, these are not my opinions c"hv I'm just trying to see if I can make sense of the senseless gibberish here.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 03:22 PM   #90
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Where did the Rebbe make a prediction about Gimmel Tamuz?
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Unread 01-25-2004, 03:34 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamachassid
I agree with the Rebbe that ma zaroi bachaim af hu bachaim. The people here definitely think think that they, the children, are definitely alive. But the Rebbe was wrong (?!) about his predictions on 3 Tamuz, 3 Tamuz happened and so according to these people the Rebbe is no longer alive. So who and where is their Rebbe and how can they have feelings for him if he's no longer alive? Again, these are not my opinions c"hv I'm just trying to see if I can make sense of the senseless gibberish here.
1)Thank you for your haskomo..... (actully it is a Gemora....)

2)see torah613

3) if you are asking how can you have feelings for someone who is not here anymore so then i think Lion answerd that question NOT EVEN REGARDING A TZADIK OR REBBE........for sure regarding a tzadik and K"V vK"S the Rebbe there is NO place for that question (it just comes from a lack of knowledge or something else .
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Unread 01-25-2004, 03:37 PM   #92
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I guess predictions is the wrong word but I do know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately I don't know the sichos off-hand but there are a few yakov lo mes sichos, shoftim vyoatzim, ki sisa and quite a few others. Those who know the sichos and the sources feel free to help me out.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 06:33 PM   #93
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Those have nothing to do with whether Gimmel Tamuz will happen or not.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 06:55 PM   #94
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From what I understood and what I was taught those are some of the clearest guidelines, prophecies and bitachon-builders for my friends and me. I don't want to make this into a discussion on 51-52 sichos or a controversial issue. Personally, my Rebbe is alive, literally and in my heart and in my life. I'm just trying to understand those people who claim that the rebbe is no longer alive and that his life/death status affects their feelings and relationship with the rebbe.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 07:07 PM   #95
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2 issues:
1) The Rebbe may not be alive in the plain physical sense - but he is still my (our) Rebbe in a very real sense, as discussed in Tanya (IK # 27).
2) As far as feelings and relationship - that would depend on the individual, how much he/she works on it, by studying the Rebbe's teachings and striving to live up to the ideals he set up for us - thereby gaining an appreciation of how much we owe to the Rebbe and his teachings (similar to the idea of Ahavas Hashem, the way it is explained by the Alter Rebbe). [I am purposely not mentioning those that may have had individual directives/advice from the Rebbe etc., as that is an entirely different level, which not everyone has today].
As an aside - I am generally suspicious of anything that sounds too easy...
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Unread 01-25-2004, 07:31 PM   #96
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That makes sense. I get the feeling that the general CT crowd doesn't agree with part 2.
What sounds too easy?
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Unread 01-25-2004, 07:38 PM   #97
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Feeling "love" without having to work on it.
Who wouldn't agree with part 2? What is there to disagree with?
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Unread 01-25-2004, 07:52 PM   #98
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I'm not sure who wouldn't agree and why but some ppl. on Chabad Talk seem to have problems with it. I'll wait to hear general opinion, agreement, disagreement before I comment on it.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 08:30 PM   #99
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I totaly agree with Torah613 on both #1 and#2.
And he is so right - the key word is "working on it". It's like anything else in chassiduss and in life.
Learning chassiduss of the Rebbe builds a very strong connection with the Rebbe that can be love at some points.
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Unread 01-25-2004, 09:14 PM   #100
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shkoyach! It seems like we're all starting to agree on something sensible! Anyone else?
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