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Unread 03-31-2011, 02:21 PM   #1
mosheh5769
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Did the Rebbe and the Rashab ever meet each other?

The title says it all.

Although alive in the lifetime of the Rebbe Rashab, there is no record or story which imply they ever met each other.
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Unread 03-31-2011, 02:25 PM   #2
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I heard that when Reb Leivik went to the Rebbe Rashab, he davka didn't take along the Rebbe, so that the Rebbe would be totally mekushar to the Rebbe Rashab's successor, the Frierdiker Rebbe, and that this is comparable to the fact that the Alter Rebbe's father never took him to the Baal Shem Tov (except for by his opsheren--but then he didn't know who the Baal Shem Tov was).
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Unread 03-31-2011, 02:33 PM   #3
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Thank you Noach.
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Unread 04-01-2011, 05:02 PM   #4
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it sounds like great imagination
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Unread 04-02-2011, 05:00 PM   #5
mosheh5769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
it sounds like great imagination
Why?

Do you know something else on the matter at hand?
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Unread 04-03-2011, 03:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I heard that when Reb Leivik went to the Rebbe Rashab, he davka didn't take along the Rebbe, so that the Rebbe would be totally mekushar to the Rebbe Rashab's successor, the Frierdiker Rebbe, and that this is comparable to the fact that the Alter Rebbe's father never took him to the Baal Shem Tov (except for by his opsheren--but then he didn't know who the Baal Shem Tov was).
To apply this reasoning to the Rebbe's father is beyond farfetched.
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Unread 04-03-2011, 04:43 PM   #7
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So, it seems that the question is more difficult than thought.

How is it that as a chosid, the Rebbe never met his Rebbe at the time, the Rashab, while at the same time his father, Reb Levik, visited the Rashab? Why didn't he take the Rebbe with him?

In thinking a little bit, it's true that Noach's proposal creates some further issues. How Reb Levik could deprive his son to meet the Rashab for the purpose of preserving his Hiskashrus toward the next Rebbe, the Rayatz? It imples that Reb Levik didn't appreciate the Rashab or was not truly loyal to him and wanted to keep his son far from the Rashab . A proposal difficul to accept as chassidim.
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Unread 04-03-2011, 05:42 PM   #8
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The Rashab was also a family member. One would think that Reb Levik would have been interested in family meeting one another. But that, of course, was a personal decision.

I often read that bochurim were not accustomed to going to Yechidus even in the Rebbe's time. The Rebbe was roughly 18 when the Rashab passed away, and a quick search online seems to show that his first time even meeting the Rayatz was not until he was older than that. This would suggest that the Rebbe never visited because, at the time, such a visit was not the custom.

Keep in mind... traveling is a lot cheaper and easier today than in Russia at the time. And a lot safer (even if this all did predate the formation of the USSR).
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Unread 04-03-2011, 05:51 PM   #9
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So you explain it mainly by economic and geographical reasons...It makes sense but it doesn't explain why he didn't met him even once...
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Unread 04-03-2011, 05:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
I often read that bochurim were not accustomed to going to Yechidus even in the Rebbe's time.
But the Rebbe was not a simple bochur. He was family related to the Rashab.

Quote:
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The Rebbe was roughly 18 when the Rashab passed away, and a quick search online seems to show that his first time even meeting the Rayatz was not until he was older than that. This would suggest that the Rebbe never visited because, at the time, such a visit was not the custom.
It can be a plausible explanation.
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Unread 04-03-2011, 10:55 PM   #11
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To apply this reasoning to the Rebbe's father is beyond farfetched.
I don't think it's far-fetched at all. Reb Leivik was a baal ruach hakodesh, a great Tzaddik. He saw what the Rebbe needed beruchniyus, that it wasn't an inyan to take the Rebbe along with him. If even I can understand this concept, based on the story with the Alter Rebbe and the Baal Shem Tov, the Rebbe's holy father, whom Hashem charged with raising the Rebbe to be who he eventually became, certainly could. Especially since we see that the Rebbe was mevateil himself to the Frierdikeh Rebbe in a very, shall we say, extraordinary way.

Last edited by noahidelaws; 04-04-2011 at 01:32 AM.
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Unread 04-04-2011, 11:33 AM   #12
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By the AR there was a direct directive of the Baal Shem Tov.
Over here - it is no more then silly conjecture.
I am not discussing the hashgocho protis result of them not meeting. What irks me is subscribing these motives and cheshbonos to the Rebbe's father, without a shred of evidence.
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Unread 04-04-2011, 03:42 PM   #13
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I agree that it is conjecture, being that it's something I heard for which I don't have a source; that doesn't make it silly--it seems to me perfectly reasonable, base on the clear precedent for it.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 01:54 AM   #14
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Nu nu, I beg to differ.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 05:24 AM   #15
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Maybe the Rebbe Rasab didn't want to meet the Rebbe...

When the Rebbe was born the Rebbe Rashab sent 6 telegrams saying what to do: Yarmulka, negel vasser etc.

Also regarding the Rebbe's Shidduch the Rebbe Rashab wished that the oldest of Reb Levik's children should be for the second oldest granddaughter

Lechoiro he would have mentioned if he wanted to see the Rebbe or perhaps that he didn't need or want to. I'm sure Reb Levik wouldn't have done something without asking. So one can assume the Rebbe Rashab said something about it.

Re the Baal shem tov and maggid AR theory in a day to recall a day to remember it is quoted.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 05:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hoodle View Post
When the Rebbe was born the Rebbe Rashab sent 6 telegrams saying what to do: Yarmulka, negel vasser etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hoodle View Post
I'm sure Reb Levik wouldn't have done something without asking. So one can assume the Rebbe Rashab said something about it.
I completely forgot that indeed Reb Levik received many telegrams on how to educate him, etc.

So you may be right that not seeing the Rebbe was part of the deal, who knows.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #17
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especulations
I love how ppl can conclude a "logical reason" and then take it as a source
Reality is nobody knows the real reason if it was a reason at all,unless someone heard it from the Rebbe directly
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Unread 04-05-2011, 08:39 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
Reality is nobody knows the real reason if it was a reason at all
There is a reason behind anything, it's just that sometimes (most of the time?) we are not able to comprehend it.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 08:43 AM   #19
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i mean "pre meditated reason"
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Unread 04-05-2011, 09:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
I heard that when Reb Leivik went to the Rebbe Rashab, he davka didn't take along the Rebbe
Idle question: Is there a reliable record anywhere of a time(s) when Reb LY was by the Rebbe Rashab (after 5662)?
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Unread 04-05-2011, 09:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
i mean "pre meditated reason"
Hence the question: how can you be sure that there was no pre-meditated reason that made impossible a meeting between the Rashab and the Rebbe?

I do not think this is a coincidence. Everything indicates that nothing in the life of the Rebbe was due to chance. There must be a reason why. But I admit that we cannot know for sure, since it seems that the Rebbe himself never talked about that.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 09:44 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mosheh5769 View Post
Hence the question: how can you be sure that there was no pre-meditated reason that made impossible a meeting between the Rashab and the Rebbe?

I do not think this is a coincidence. Everything indicates that nothing in the life of the Rebbe was due to chance. There must be a reason why. But I admit that we cannot know for sure, since it seems that the Rebbe himself never talked about that.
I did not say that it was not a pre meditated reason, I said maybe there was not an specific reason,maybe yes, we don't know
But if we dont know, we only can make up an imaginairy reason
I also heard ppl saying that Reb LY was a Rebbe himself, so there was not a reason at that time to bring the Rebbe anywhere
so, what was the reason? you can say anything!!
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Unread 04-05-2011, 09:45 AM   #23
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Idle question: Is there a reliable record anywhere of a time(s) when Reb LY was by the Rebbe Rashab (after 5662)?
A good question. I don't recall seeing any mention of such a trip in "A Mother in Israel" (based on the memoirs of Rebbetzin Channah). But there may be other sources.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 11:14 AM   #24
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Hence the question: how can you be sure that there was no pre-meditated reason that made impossible a meeting between the Rashab and the Rebbe?
And if he is not sure, iz vos? Can someone be sure there was? Therefore, since we do not know the answer if it was or wasn't, and it is extremely unlikely any evidence will be produced either way - that makes all the theories and conjecture a bit... way out...
Quote:

I do not think this is a coincidence. Everything indicates that nothing in the life of the Rebbe was due to chance. There must be a reason why. But I admit that we cannot know for sure, since it seems that the Rebbe himself never talked about that.
You are confusing lack of coincidence with premeditated.
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Unread 04-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #25
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A good question. I don't recall seeing any mention of such a trip in "A Mother in Israel" (based on the memoirs of Rebbetzin Channah). But there may be other sources.
Maybe. Makes a difference, no?
And while someone is researching this fact, maybe they can give us an idea of distances from where the the Rebbe lived - to Lubavitch, and later (from 5676) to Rostov.
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