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Unread 01-25-2005, 07:33 PM   #1
BaisHamikdashBa
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Rest my case!

Frumteen...
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Of course they are human. But when they give advice - and I repeat: advice, not a psak, not a hashkafa, etc. - then you are correct, that you ultimately know yourself better than anyone else. A godol, even the greatest, can only base a suggestion on information he is provided with. But if you know that the information that the godol used is faulty, if he is misinformed, underinformed, or mislead, then his suggestion will not work.

So if the Godol is not aware of something about you or about the school he recommended, it is definitely possible that you are correct, and the suggestion is not designed for the reality of who you are.

Bear in mind that in such a case, the Godol himself is not commanding or demanding that you follow his advice, but rather that you consider it wisely when you make your own independent decision. Therefore, if oyu end up not following his suggestion, you are not "going against" the Godol, since he himself never intended anything except your considering it, which you did. As oppsoed to when he tells you a psak or a hashkafa, he is saying "This is the correct way to think", which is different.

You can find a source for this in the Ruach Chaim of Rav Chaim Volozhiner ZTL on the Mishna in Avos, "Marbeh atzah marbeh sevunah". He says that when seeking advice, you should ask numerous people, collect all the different opinions, and then use their collective wisdom to make a decision for yourself, since you ultimately know your situation better than anybody, but others are perhaps wiser than you, so if combine their wisdom and apply it to your self-knowledge, you will have good advice.

Also, in your particular case, I do not know who gave you the advice, so I do not know whether I would agree or disagree with your mother as to whether the advisor is a "godol" in the first place. Different people have different views on who is and isn't a Godol.
WOW!!
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Unread 01-26-2005, 07:16 PM   #2
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"reb mod" wrote this?
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50 characters???? Why did it change?????
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Unread 01-26-2005, 09:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by klippatrapper
"reb mod" wrote this?
Rav Mod, LOL.
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Unread 01-27-2005, 02:07 PM   #4
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I wonder how many Litvishe would be totally shocked at these words.
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Unread 01-07-2006, 11:58 PM   #5
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I wonder how many Litvishe would be totally shocked at these words.
the case is that you don't accord the gadol for the sake of doing something forbidden.
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Unread 09-05-2006, 07:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
But when they give advice - and I repeat: advice, not a psak, not a hashkafa, etc. - then you are correct, that you ultimately know yourself better than anyone else. A godol, even the greatest, can only base a suggestion on information he is provided with. But if you know that the information that the godol used is faulty, if he is misinformed, underinformed, or mislead, then his suggestion will not work.
There's nothing inherently untrue about this, lichoiro. It's similar to the fact that a Beis Din could pasken that an innocent person is guilty, because the witnesses were lying, and "ein la'dayan ela mah she'einav roi'ois." Only Tzadikim like the Rebbe, who is "morach va'do'in," are able to use their supernatural powers to see through "mah she'einav roi'ois."

My only question here is why he differentiates between advice and a psak or "hashkofo"; if the former is incorrect when based on incorrect information, then why isn't the latter? E.g., the "psak" that it's permitted to surrender land to terrorists is wrong because it relies on the false report that surrenders lead to peace, when the reality is the exact opposite; similarly, the Rebbe said that those who paskened that it's mutar to use a microphone on Shabbos were wrong because they don't know how electricity works.
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He says that when seeking advice, you should ask numerous people, collect all the different opinions, and then use their collective wisdom to make a decision for yourself, since you ultimately know your situation better than anybody, but others are perhaps wiser than you, so if combine their wisdom and apply it to your self-knowledge, you will have good advice.
this contradicts an explicit Bartenura (and Medrash Shmuel):
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One Rav Only

Obviously, anyone who already has a Rav (or Mashpia, or the like) need not seek another Rav. On the contrary, one of the interpretations of “make for yourself a Rav” is “that one accept for himself one Rav from whom he will learn constantly, and not learn from one person today and from another tomorrow.” [Pirkei Avos, 1:6, Bartenura] Moreover, “this will benefit you, for you will be rid of doubt [“make yourself a Rav and free yourself from doubt—ibid., 1:16”], for if you learn from two or three Rabbis, your mind will become confused.” [Medrash Shmuel, 1:16]

Sicha of Devarim, 5746
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Unread 09-05-2006, 07:16 AM   #7
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I heard (can't quote where), that in the period that Sicha was said (5746-5747), the Rebbe said that regarding differing subjects one may have different Mashpi'im. (i.e. you can ask someone who excels in Tefillah regarding Tefilah, and your Rosh Yeshiva can be your Mashpia regarding learning, etc.)

But, only one person per issue, because the point of the Rav is (as the Bartenurah writes) "V'histalek min Hasofek", and different Rabbis will give differing opinions, thus defeating the purpose.
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Unread 09-06-2006, 02:28 AM   #8
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I would like to see a source on this as every sicha I have seems to be one rav, one mashpia.
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Unread 09-06-2006, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
Only Tzadikim like the Rebbe, who is "morach va'do'in,"
Is that known for a fact ?
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Unread 03-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #10
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" So if the Godol is not aware of something about you or about the school he recommended, it is definitely possible that you are correct, and the suggestion is not designed for the reality of who you are."

Wow. This means that a Bais Yaakov girl can ask her Rav for 'advice' on what seminary to go to and say "hmm you know what? Thanks for your advice but I know myself and my needs better and because of that I think I'll go to Stern."
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