Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Lubavitch > Chassidus

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 01-31-2012, 03:22 PM   #1
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
On change in the heavenly spheres

From here:
Quote:
דמהשמים וצבא השמים אנו יודעים את בחי' אוא"ס הבלתי בע"ג שלמעלה מהעולמות, דצבא השמים חלוקים מצבא הארץ בזה דצבא הארץ קיימים במין, אבל לא באיש, שהאישים בכל מין הוים ונפסדים, וצבא השמים קיימין גם באיש, דצבא השמים הם ג"כ נבראים מוגבלים ומורכבים מגוף ונפש, ומצד עצמם הרי הם אפשרי ההפסד, ורק ברצון הבורא ית' הם קיימין באיש, והם חזקים כיום הבראם192, אשר מזה גופא מובן אשר כח בלתי בע"ג מחי' אותם, כי מצד החיות עצמו שמלובש בהם כיון שהוא מוגבל ומצומצם לפ"ע הגוף, שבגוף מוגבל הרי א"א* שיהי' החיות שבו בלתי מוגבל, כ"א בהכרח שהחיות מוגבל, וחיות מוגבל הרי בהכרח שיחלש פעולתו, או ישתנה, וכמו בגוף האדם שבמשך הזמן נחלש, ובצבא השמים שאינו כן, הנה מזה מובן דאור וחיות בלתי בע"ג מחי' אותם מאין ליש.
Don't we see evidence of changes in the stars, especially according to recent scientific discoveries?
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2012, 03:56 PM   #2
Tuesday
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 44
..ומצד עצמם הרי הם אפשרי ההפסד..
Tuesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-01-2012, 05:15 PM   #3
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
I don't see how your quote answers the question. Please explain more for slow people like myself.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #4
Tuesday
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 44
The Gal Einai answer is always: שית אלפי שנין דהוי עלמא... לא ישבותו מפעולתם... דהיינו להאיר על הארץ etc... beyond that מצד עצמם הרי הם אפשרי ההפסד.. they are only קיימין באיש because of יש מאין אותיות איש מין... etc...

(lfi aniyus daati... do we really see changes in צבא השמים? or effect "billions of years" later... in which case they were created that way too לפי תורה... but לפי מדע we make assumptions etc... )
Tuesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-02-2012, 10:29 PM   #5
Paper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 63
Maybe there is a difference between the weakening of the body of the stars (seemingly observed) as posed above (which are not neccessarily truly infinite, see the Rebbe's sicha here)-

- and their movement and the body of the galgalim and their movement, which are perhaps truly infinite (though even here perhaps there is an imperceptible change), since this concept of חזקים כיום הבראם and כח הא״ס is brought not only in the above post's context (where we might have said we believe it because it says so in the Torah though it is not yet understood how it can be, or because it doesn't neccessarily mean actual infinite as indicated in the referenced Sicha,) but also as proof based on observation in ספר החקירה ד:א and in other places.

Quote:
(lfi aniyus daati... do we really see changes in צבא השמים? or effect "billions of years" later... in which case they were created that way too לפי תורה... but לפי מדע we make assumptions etc... )
If they detoriorated slowly over many years 'billions of years ago', why should now be any different?

Last edited by Paper; 02-06-2012 at 06:44 PM. Reason: link
Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #6
Tuesday
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 44
Quote:
If they detoriorated slowly over many years 'billions of years ago', why should now be any different?
Reread what I wrote in last post slowly...
Tuesday is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-06-2012, 02:40 AM   #7
Paper
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 63
Were you first saying now is different since now is שית אלפי שנין דהוי עלמא, but the way it was created was in the likeness of deterioration? Is 'lfi aniyus daati' explaining the first part you wrote, or are you saying הרוצה לטעות יבוא ויטעה and its not neccessarily shayach for any currently existing star (even if not for שית אלפי שנין) to burst though we 'find' this by 'already' imploded 'stars'?

In any case, the Rebbe seems to be saying that there is deterioration even now, and that deterioration of billions of years is called infinite בלשון הבאי and comes from an even truly infinite source in ruchnius, and that after שית אלפי שנין it will lose its infiniteness.

What you wrote could help explain 'קיימין באיש' more that this is only for שית אלפי שנין.

Last edited by Paper; 02-06-2012 at 06:32 PM.
Paper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Change in Spiritual Laws... Dove99%pure Yiddishkeit 4 03-19-2010 09:31 AM
Change of feeling shmeichel Lubavitch Derech 20 03-19-2009 12:50 AM
Change - Order of Priorities Jude Yiddishkeit 6 02-05-2004 08:29 PM
How to change the Timezone on Chabadtalk Tzemach Comments and Feedback 1 12-06-2002 11:41 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com