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Unread 02-03-2005, 08:31 PM   #1
77D
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The Chazon Ish

Whats the deal with the Chazon Ish?
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Unread 02-03-2005, 09:10 PM   #2
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well all I know is that the moderator on the anything you would like to know about jewish website always qoutes him in all his real anti-lubavitch answers & im almost sure he once said he was a decsendent from him!
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Unread 02-03-2005, 10:01 PM   #3
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I heard that the Rebbe was in a car (on the way to ohel?) just after he was niftar, and older chassidim in the car mentioned him, and one remarked that he was said to be a gaon, and the Rebbe responded "a gaon in yiras Shomayim as well" (I also find this very hard to believe, but I did hear it from a reliable source, I'll bli"n check the details).
There was a yechidus once with R' Yoel Kahan I think, that had opposite imlications.

And if something that is not just hearsay is also permitted here: In the famous sicha of purim ("?), the Rebbe's overall tone in regard to him is respectfull.

It is also true that he is largely responsible for a lot of the contemporary "bnei torah" style hisnagdus.

About his brother in law the steipler I heard two very interesting stories, next time i havea chance iyh
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Unread 02-03-2005, 10:18 PM   #4
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Why would you find it hard to believe?
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Unread 02-04-2005, 01:59 AM   #5
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I must admit, you managed to surprise me.

But the answer is, this story was in complete contradistinction with what I had always understood to be the Rebbe's yachas to him.

I'm trying to keep an open mind.

Last edited by wannabe; 02-04-2005 at 02:31 AM.
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Unread 02-07-2005, 07:35 PM   #6
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The Rebbe does bring him down and by name...

The thing with the chzon ish is that he had a knack of being a 'daas yochid' on a lot of issues many times paskining contrary to what the rishonim say [by rishonim I do not (necessarily) mean it in the literal sense but rather in the broader sense like the sa"ch ta"z etc. etc.].
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Unread 02-07-2005, 08:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LION
The Rebbe does bring him down and by name...
Where?
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Unread 02-07-2005, 09:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
Where?
For an example see Shaar halocho uminhag vol. 2 page 153 .
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Unread 02-07-2005, 10:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
the famous sicha of purim ("?), the Rebbe's overall tone in regard to him is respectful.
Isn't that Purim 5718, which is on tape, where the Rebbe says that even a Chasidishe child will be on a higher level than a certain person in Olam Haba, since despite his gadlus in niglah, kein Chasidus hot er nisht gelerent--which rumour has it is a reference to the Chazon Ish?
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Unread 02-07-2005, 11:17 PM   #10
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Purim 5716 (also on tape).
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Unread 02-08-2005, 12:28 AM   #11
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By a farbrengen in Tishrei 5722 (1961)-its on tape- the Rebbe told the guests from Israel to sing the new niggun and they sang a niggun called kad yasvun yisroel (a famous yeshivishe niggun). I heard that the Chazon Ish made the niggun. Can someone verify this ?
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Unread 02-08-2005, 12:38 AM   #12
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it was recently discussed in the Israeli forums. They said that The Rebbe said something like " Vos darf men dermanen az far yidden iz nisht goor, un zei lernen mitoch tzaar", but not because it was a niggun composed by the CI.
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Unread 02-08-2005, 07:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LION
For an example see Shaar halocho uminhag vol. 2 page 153 .
You'll admit that that "bringing him down by name" is not as if the Rebbe is quoting from him. The Rebbe is writing ha'aros to Chaim Zimerman on the Agan Hasohar, and he starts of by saying that everything he tries to say to defend the Chazon Ish is not really valid (very rough translation).

About the niggun "Kad Yasvin", in misnagdishe Yeshivos it's reffered to as the Ch"I's niggun, however what I heard is that it is in fact it is an old E"Y niggun, that the Ch"I happened to like a lot. What I heard is that when the Rebbe asked the guests from E"Y to sing "miZimras Ho'oretz", they first sang this, which wasn't niskabel, and they then sang the niggun Hoshi'oh es amecho (perhaps the Rebbe made a positive comment about it, I can't remember, but it's history that it stayed).
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Unread 02-09-2005, 08:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
You'll admit that that "bringing him down by name" is not as if the Rebbe is quoting from him. The Rebbe is writing ha'aros to Chaim Zimerman on the Agan Hasohar, and he starts of by saying that everything he tries to say to defend the Chazon Ish is not really valid (very rough translation).
Yes, but you will find that when the Rebbe really did not approve of someone he would say what the person said without mentioning his name.
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Unread 02-13-2005, 04:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HershelBP
it was recently discussed in the Israeli forums.
can you share the link with us? toda mei'rosh
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Unread 02-13-2005, 05:40 PM   #16
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purim 5716 he reffers to the complaints he got via mail about the farbrengen where r' fole kahan said that ploni ben ploni (of cource every one knew who he meant) iz mekane even a small child who learned chassidus. the rebbe went on to defend what r' fole said based on maamorei chazal. a geshmake sicha and tape. kdai to listen
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Unread 03-06-2005, 02:55 PM   #17
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The Chazan Ish isnt Shach is it?????????????????????
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Unread 03-06-2005, 03:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klippatrapper
The Chazan Ish isnt Shach is it?????????????????????
No, and if I were you I would not ask this outright...
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Unread 05-09-2005, 11:57 PM   #19
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1) the CI passed away in 5714 so if the niggun sung in 5722 was 'NEW' it certainly was not composed by the CI (althogh i don't remember hearing in the tape ( - actualy, the MP3 file) that the rebbe mentions to hear a 'new niggun' rather like 'wanabe' indicates that the rebbe asked to hear 'mizimras ha'aretz').
2) BLI ACHRAYUS - i heard that the issue with the CI is that he claimed that a mikvah that is Bor al gav bor is not kosher, that would mean that all lubavitchers (that use that mikah like the alter rebbes shitah) are Bnei Nidah.
but i never saw this anywhere.
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Unread 05-10-2005, 07:24 AM   #20
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I am pretty sure that this last point is incorrect (would he even have known about it back then?), maybe based on the fact that he didn't like bor hashoko altogether (just zriyah). Agav - bor al gav bor has nothing to do with the Alter Rebbe...

Last edited by Torah613; 05-10-2005 at 11:08 AM.
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Unread 05-12-2005, 10:04 AM   #21
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I heard (from someone who respected the opinion) that the CI would not go up to the Torah if it was written in ksav Ari.
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Unread 05-12-2005, 07:26 PM   #22
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Yes, he had a problem with how certain letters were written (the Tzaddik IIRC). What does that have to do with Lubavitch?
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Unread 05-12-2005, 10:44 PM   #23
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what was the argument with him about the Kav Hataarich (someone metioned somthing about it to me, without much explenations)?
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Unread 05-12-2005, 11:14 PM   #24
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He had his own opinion where the Halachik dateline was, which impacted the Jews in Shanchai at that time.
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Unread 05-13-2005, 03:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maaminim
what was the argument with him about the Kav Hataarich (someone metioned somthing about it to me, without much explenations)?
In very short:

The chazon ish holds that in principal the kav hatarich is as the Baal Hamaor says 90 east of yerushalaim [which is the 125E meridian] However he [the CI] holds that since this line cuts through land [Australia etc.] we employ a process called grera [dragging] and therefore moves the line where it cuts through land and makes it [sort of] follow the coast [meaning the part next to land more over to the east which would make the whole Australia on the west side of the date line].

Iow he holds it is a crooked line 90 east of yerushlaim.


The Rebbe [if I understand correctly] is like that of R Yechiel Michel Tukatchinsky 180 east of yerushlaim (144.8W meridian) [I write this based on this that the Rebbe writes about the date line going through Alaska which if you hold that it is 145 east of yerushlaim does not happen (the Rebbe mentions these three shitos as the three main ones and disregards the CI shito as a daas yochid and inconsequentialand writes that since according to these last two shitas Australia is on the west side of the line you should be noiheg like them (hence I brought my above comment about Australia..)]
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