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Unread 08-22-2003, 03:38 PM   #1
Yankel Nosson
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Swimming Pool as valid Mens Mikvah

I am trying to understand how a swimming pool is valid as a mikvah for a man.
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Unread 08-22-2003, 04:37 PM   #2
Torah613
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Look in AR's SA 606:11.
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Unread 05-04-2005, 03:20 AM   #3
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A real mikvah is definetly ideal even for a man. However, if it's not accessable than a swimming pool is only the second best. Third best would be 9 kaveem of shower water(a few minutes would do). Therefore no habit should be made of a swimming pool as a mikvah and certainly not a shower being that they're simply very bedieved compared to the real thing. A woman of course can only use a real mikvah for it to be a kosher immersion.
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Unread 05-04-2005, 03:29 PM   #4
Torah613
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The swimming pool is only good (even for a man) if it doesn't have the status of a "keli" (as it has in some situations).
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Unread 05-04-2005, 04:00 PM   #5
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can a mikveh be made of plastic which is mekabel tumah?
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Unread 05-04-2005, 08:11 PM   #6
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If it's made so that it's mechubar l'karka before it becomes a keili.
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Unread 05-04-2005, 08:27 PM   #7
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The water can't be zochalin.
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Unread 05-04-2005, 11:39 PM   #8
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ע' שו"ע אדה"ז ס' פ"ח – 'מועילים לטבול......אפילו הם שאובים

Ok the hebrew is not really working out anyways.....

clearly a swimming pool is sufficient - as long as not kli and not zochalin - as has been mentioned by the scholars hitherto

That being said there is a sefer i beleive its shaarei mikvaois who writes that to acheive the tosefes taharah (phase 2 of the male mikvah experience see shaarei halacha uminhag, igeres admur hazaken) the mikvah should be a kosher mikvah ie kosher for tvilas nidah.
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Unread 05-05-2005, 12:30 AM   #9
LavDavka
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By the way, Dys, it's a machlokes if a shower is kosher for 9 kabin. The Rebbe, when asked what to do, brought both deyos. (It's in Igros somewhere)
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Unread 05-05-2005, 11:39 PM   #10
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IIRC, in that letter(shower for 9 kabin) the Rebbe brought down two Seforim to look at. One is Mishne Halochos. I don't remember the other one.
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Unread 05-05-2005, 11:44 PM   #11
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The other is Taharas Mayim. And like I said, those two are in disagreement as to if a shower is kosher.
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Unread 05-06-2005, 01:15 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavDavka
The water can't be zochalin.
I couldn't resist wading into this issue.

If by "zochlin," you are refering to the filter, that's a whole other issue. As far as I recall, having a filter on is not me'akaiv for a man.

(I hope I haven't gone in over my head here.)
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Unread 05-06-2005, 07:16 AM   #13
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so if you go to a men's mikvah and the filter /water circulation in and out is on and you cannot turn it off (locked) ...are you still toiveling if you go under?
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Unread 05-06-2005, 07:46 AM   #14
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atzmus
That being said there is a sefer i beleive its shaarei mikvaois who writes that to acheive the tosefes taharah (phase 2 of the male mikvah experience see shaarei halacha uminhag, igeres admur hazaken) the mikvah should be a kosher mikvah ie kosher for tvilas nidah.
What (and who) is "Sharei Mikvaos"?
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Unread 05-06-2005, 04:19 PM   #15
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Filter is zochalin, zochalin is down the drain.

People make a mistake about men's mikvaos, thinking "anything goes". This is true only to the extent that weak metaharim (like 9 kabin, washing your hands, learning mishnayos mikvaos) add in tosefes tahara for a man. However something that isn't metaher at all, like water in a kli or zochalin, can't add in taharah at all either.
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Unread 05-06-2005, 06:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavDavka
Filter is zochalin, zochalin is down the drain.
When the water of a mikveh is filtered, all the water goes down the drain!? Your filter is not terribly useful then.
With our filter, water in the mikvah is sucked out, filtered, and then put back in. Nothing goes down the drain.
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Unread 05-07-2005, 10:21 PM   #17
Torah613
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Though I have heard of this "psak" RebLazer mentions many years ago from a respected Rov (who asked at the time not to publicize it), it is not at all universal that a filter is not considered zochlin, and many (most?) disagree. The most one can say is that for a man we will be somech on the makilin.
For a treatment of this subject, see "Mikveh Mayim" (R' Y Katz) v 2.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 09:22 AM   #18
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See YD, sec. 201, par. 50, 51.
שולחן ערוך יורה דעה סימן רא סעיף נ

ואין יציאת המים קרוי זוחלין, אלא כשאין חוזרין למקוה
אבל כשיוצאין מעט וחוזרין שם, לא מקרי זחילה.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 01:03 PM   #19
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Torah613- I don't know Sha'arei Mikvaos, but the Chelkas Ya'akov (YD 118) says the same thing. Only he holds that if the Mikvah is not %100 kosher, it doesn't help for tosefes taharah at all, unlike the Rebbe.

Either way, to me it would seem simple that a better mikvah accomplishes a better taharah.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 01:58 PM   #20
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this topic has been exhausted on CT already...
do your searches.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 02:03 PM   #21
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebLazer
See YD, sec. 201, par. 50, 51.
שולחן ערוך יורה דעה סימן רא סעיף נ

ואין יציאת המים קרוי זוחלין, אלא כשאין חוזרין למקוה
אבל כשיוצאין מעט וחוזרין שם, לא מקרי זחילה.
That case is very different than the case of the filter (see the שו"ת ריב"ש inside), as is self understood. Discussed also at length in the sefer I mentioned previously (from ספרי שו"ת etc.).

Last edited by Torah613; 05-08-2005 at 02:13 PM.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 10:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613
That case is very different than the case of the filter (see the שו"ת ריב"ש inside), as is self understood. Discussed also at length in the sefer I mentioned previously (from ספרי שו"ת etc.).
I mentioned this halacha not to indicate that it was decisive, only that it was germane to the issue, and that the matter (i.e, filter=zochlin) is not as simple as some would have us believe.
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Unread 05-08-2005, 11:01 PM   #23
shoyn
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from the past weeks sichas hashovua


בן הקיבוץ והרב נפגשו במקווה
חיים יהודיים



היזמים במקווה ביתי, פרי פיתוחם. חזון אחרית הימים

מה דעתכם על הרעיון לקום בבוקר, להיכנס לחדר-האמבט ולטבול במקווה הפרטי הממוקם בו? אם זה נשמע לכם חלום, שני תושבי בית-אל יגשימו לכם אותו. היזמים פיתחו שיטה, 'מעיין מים חיים' שמה, להפוך את חדר-האמבט (או כל חדר אחר בבית) למקווה-טהרה כשר למהדרין.

את האמבטיה המקובלת תתפוס יציקת בטון (כדי שהמקווה יהיה 'מחובר לקרקע'), עם איטום מלא. לתוכה יוזרם קוב מי גשמים, בשיטה הממלאת את דרישות הלכה. 'בור השקה' נוסף ישמש עתודה למי גשמים וייבנה מחוץ לבית. והנה לכם מקווה פרטי.

להרבות טהרה

הוגה הרעיון הוא הרב מרדכי כלאב (36), החולם, לדבריו, זמן רב על הפרוייקט שמטרתו "להרבות טהרה בעם-ישראל". כלאב, אב לשבעה, בוגר ישיבת קול-תורה והמכון לדיינות בראשות אביו, הרב אברהם-יצחק כלאב (חבר בית-הדין הרבני בירושלים), חקר את העניין לעומקו ובא בדברים עם גדולי המומחים למקוואות. "אנשים שומעים על הקלות היחסית לביצוע הרעיון ועיניהם בורקות", הוא אומר.

על הצד השיווקי של הפרוייקט מופקד שכנו של כלאב, אסף דרומי. מאחורי דרומי (51), אב לשמונה, סיפור אישי מרתק. הוא נולד בקיבוץ דורות. כחייל בגולני לחם בחרמון במלחמת יום-הכיפורים והשתתף במלחמת לבנון. לפני כעשרים ושלוש שנים החל לשמור תורה ומצוות.

בן חמש הכיר את בוראו

"מאז ומתמיד העסיקו אותי שאלות על מהות החיים ותכליתם", הוא אומר. "אני זוכר את עצמי כילד בן חמש חושב על הבורא, אף שבקיבוץ לא הקנו לנו שום יסודות יהודיים. תמיד קיננה בי הרגשה סמויה שיום אחד אשמור מצוות. תחושה זו התחזקה בימי הצבא כאשר פגשתי חבר'ה דתיים, מאוד רציניים, שהקפידו לעשות דברים 'מוזרים' כמו לכרוך רצועות עור על הזרוע... החלטתי לבדוק את הדברים לעומקם והגעתי ל'מכון מאיר'".

במקביל ללימוד התורה והשיבה ליהדות השתלם דרומי בתחום איכות-הסביבה, ובהמשך היה ממונה על איכות המים במחוז תל-אביב מטעם משרד הבריאות. "נמשכתי לאיכות-הסביבה כמעט מאותה סיבה שבגללה חזרתי בתשובה; החיים, על כל היבטיהם, מעניינים אותי".

מחיטוי מים לטהרה

כשפרש משם הקים, עם חבר קיבוץ דורות נוסף, עסק לניקוי ולחיטוי מכלי מים המשמשים בניינים רבי-קומות. לפני כחצי שנה עבר לגור בבית-אל ובנסיעה אקראית כמעט עם הרב כלאב עלה עניין המקוואות. דרומי ראה בכך חיבור ייחודי בין המים לבין הקדושה, והצטרף לפרוייקט בהתלהבות.

הרב כלאב, שלמד בישיבה ליטאית ושבשנים האחרונות נתוודע לעולם החסידות, חש זכות ושליחות בעניין המקוואות. "כולנו מייחלים ומצפים לגאולה השלמה, שאז נצטרך לחיות כל הזמן בטהרה. כיצד ניישם זאת? אין ספק שמקווה פרטי בכל בית יהיה הפתרון האולטימטיבי המושלם ביותר".

ובינתיים, עד שחזונם של כלאב ודרומי יתפוס תאוצה של ממש, נוסיף להיטהר במקווה הציבורי וליהנות מבונוס שלא יהיה לנו במקווה הביתי – 'מקווה נייעס' [=חדשות המקווה]...
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Unread 05-09-2005, 02:59 AM   #24
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Shaarei mikvaos - a biur on shu"a hil. mikvaos by Yissachar Chazan - basically one of these new age melaktim on hil. mikvaos.

Ive pulled out the sefer and dusted it off and sure enough Perek chof tes, Ois yud. He is clearly Mechalek between Mikvah mitzad Tevilas Ezra which can be done in Sheuvim ie a swimming pool (as stated in SHU"A siman Pay Ches - see B"Y there) and "Taharah Mamash/ Tahjarh Gemurah" (terms that he uses but that i find a little vague) which would rquire a fully kosher mikvah of 40 seah ie mei geshamim. His sources include kaf hachayim siman ayin vav s"k chof aleph.etc.

See shut ginas veradim klall daled siman daled - that for a baal keri to enter the mikdash a tevillah in mikvah mayim sheuvim was insufficient.

According to aformentioned sefers mehalech any tevillah not for keri but for taharah yesairah such as erev shabbos/ yom tov is not acheiving its goal (anything at all for that matter ??) if done in sheuvim - interesting chiddush no ? (the same would apply to a sofer before writing etc)
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Unread 05-09-2005, 03:21 PM   #25
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The Rebbe is of the opinion that one may acheive Taharah even without a Mikvah at all. Obviously mayim she'uvin will acheive taharah too.
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