Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Lubavitch > The World of Lubavitch > Lubavitch Derech

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 03-01-2012, 02:25 PM   #1
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Rambam 3 perakim vs 1 perek

Tomorrow Ches Adar we finish Mishneh Torah. The 3 perakim and 1 perk cycles match up and at least for my community this is a big deal.

Question:
If you are doing 3 perakim and its taking you when they are long about 40 minutes and this doesnt leave you time for other learning should you go down to 1 perek?

Background: Along with Chitas, Gemara, Rambam (3 perek) and Chassidus learning, I am engaged in a very indepth and demanding group learning Shaar HaYichud. We test eachother and are critically constructive when members of the group do not keep up with the pace of understanding of the content and using it to meditate. I am currently being called out on this and one member said that I should stop learning 3 perakim and dedicate that extra time to learning S.Y. I asked my mashpia and my wife and both said I should not stop learning 3 perakim. My mashpia said he heard from a chasid who was at a farbrengen who did 1 perek that the Rebbe said "For those that do 1 perek or dont do Rambam at all..." This Chasid took it to heart as learning 1 perek isnt really learning Rambam and has been doing 3 perakim ever since.

This individual was not satisfied in the advice I got and said that a Mashpia could give bad advice to you and is committed to me agreeing with him.

I apologize for the lengthy background.

Main point:
Should a person stop doing 3 perakim in this case or any case as long as he is learning Chitas, Gemara, Chassidus?
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 06:58 PM   #2
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
I do not believe that quote - until I see it.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 07:07 PM   #3
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
I do not believe that quote - until I see it.
Assuming it was a classic case of "The Rebbe said when he really didnt", the question at hand can still be answered based on your own thoughts.
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 07:18 PM   #4
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
There are situations were learning 1 perek is justified, as evidenced by the fact that the Rebbe gave that option also. To consider it "not learning Rambam" goes against the Rebbe's own words. If your mashpia cannot see this simple fact, get a new mashpia. Beyond that, I guess you will have to make your own decision based on your own unique situation, which I am not equiped to comment on, especially not in a public forum.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 10:17 PM   #5
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Where did the Rebbe give this as his opinion?

COLLIVE quotes the Rebbe

"During a farbrengen in 5745, the Rebbe said "even those for whichever reason they did not learn 3 chapters a day, but one chapter, or Sefer Hamitzvos, and even if they still did not begin learning Rambam - they can and should attend the Siyumim."

I don't think advice on why YOU THINK 3 perakim should be done as it is what the Rebbe wanted is to personal.


Than again maybe it is. This is anonymous for me.
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 10:42 PM   #6
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Excellent! And from there someone derives that one perek is like not learning?! All the Rebbe is saying is, that even those not learning 3 prokim a day, therefore not making a siyum that year (5745), should attend the siyum. Uposhut.

Last edited by Torah613; 03-02-2012 at 01:14 PM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-01-2012, 11:02 PM   #7
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Learning yes learning Rambam the way a Lubavitcher should? Unclear. Enjoy your siyun farbrengen tonight. Mazel tov.
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-02-2012, 10:21 AM   #8
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
See Tetzave 5745 where the Rebbe complains about the lack of shturem about 1 perek. Not for lubavitchers, I guess...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-02-2012, 11:11 AM   #9
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
In typical T613 fashion of course.


This one is short so we can trace it back to its source.


Someone criticizes a person for learning 3 perakim because it takes up to much time and then you cant learn chassidus in depth apparently. This persons Mashpia tells him a story for chizuk from a Chasid because everyone can agree that if you want to follow through with the Rebbe's directive on Rambam, 3 perakim is ideal.

Then. T613 comes to save the day for all the perek 1 learners by defending them on ChabadTalk instead of just answering the simple question asked.

Should a person not learn 3 perakim if he doesnt have time to learn as much chassidus during the week.
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #10
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
I have no idea what your problem is.
Someone stated - "based" on what the Rebbe said - that learning 1 perek "is not really learnng Rambam". I contended that contradicts the Rebbe.
Beyond that - it is difficult for me to comment on what a person should do, what is justified for them etc. without really knowing them etc.
[For the record - I learn one perek a day...Why? I have my reasons...].
But - I (finally) learned my lesson. For now on - let all those who want to quote others that misquote the Rebbe, sources, or anything - do it with impunity. I think I will retire, and stop wasting my time, as when I do, I also get complaints, as it seems, that if the narrow question that was asked is not answered, all the other nareshkeit that got quoted is not relevant, so better I should have not commented, we will have been left with the original posts (with no other responses) and the misquotes would have stood on their own... That, obvously, would have been infinitely better, apparantly.
I have long thought about retiring from CT - as have almost all past quality posters who are no longer heard from. I thnk I am long overdue joining them, since the discussion forum that was once is no more.. Thanks for the final push.
Good Shabbas.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #11
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
I have no idea what your problem is.
Someone stated - "based" on what the Rebbe said - that learning 1 perek "is not really learnng Rambam". I contended that contradicts the Rebbe.
Beyond that - it is difficult for me to comment on what a person should do, what is justified for them etc. without really knowing them etc.
[For the record - I learn one perek a day...Why? I have my reasons...].
But - I (finally) learned my lesson. For now one - let all those who want to quote others that misquote the Rebbe, sources, or anything - do it with impunity. I think I will retire, and stop wasting my time, as when I do, I also get complaints. As it seems, that if the narrow question that was asked is not answered, all the other nareshkeit that got quoted is not relevant... So let the misquotes stand...
Good Shabbas.
I did not say the Rebbe said learning 1 perek isnt learning. The Chosid said he was at a farbrengen where the Rebbe said "And for those who learn 1 perek a day, and those who dont learn..." and he FELT that the Rebbe was speaking to him in a way that he PERSONALLY felt he should be learning 3 perakim because if a person is honest with themselves they have a lot more time then they think and 3 perakim is in many peoples grasp. No one said the Rebbe came out and said "If you learn 1 perek you aren't learning" There is an igros from the Rebbe telling a person to learn Sefer HaMitzvos in addition to Chitas.

Notwithstanding my question is not narrow it is general and would be meant for people in this forum who learn 3 perakim. It could be that this whole maklokes you caused by tailoring my words to sound negative is because you in fact learn 1 perek for your reasons. Hazak uBourch.

The Rebbe wants a Chasid to learn 3 perakim. Bottom line nu?

Side note: From a cognitive science perspective a person who learns something 3 times on a superficial level in 3 years has a better chance of retaining the information than someone who learns something in depth once in 3 years (3 years is only used in this example but it works for any time period)

I wasnt trying to put down anyone and apologize if it came off that way. I was basically called an idiot who is going to overflow and shatter my vessel from overload on learning because i learn 3 perakim instead of using the extra time of the 2 extra perakim learning Chassidus.

Ill be ok.
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-02-2012, 04:04 PM   #12
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
I caused a machlokes? I "tailored" words?
I merely commented on the following 2 sentences:
Quote:
My mashpia said he heard from a chasid who was at a farbrengen who did 1 perek that the Rebbe said "For those that do 1 perek or dont do Rambam at all..." This Chasid took it to heart as learning 1 perek isnt really learning Rambam and has been doing 3 perakim ever since.
Read them, and then reread what I wrote.
Like I said, I regret having bothered.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
perek echad rambam ktonton General 1 02-22-2010 12:47 PM
Perakim in Torah and Neviim existwhere? Torah 4 11-22-2008 09:02 PM
Perek Shirah Jude Yiddishkeit 11 01-05-2004 01:53 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com