Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Moshiach

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 06-30-2008, 03:23 PM   #1
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Litvish Koching in Geulah?

Comments?

Click image for larger version

Name:	MisnagdishGeulah.JPG
Views:	358
Size:	183.8 KB
ID:	1327
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2008, 04:44 PM   #2
existwhere?
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 690
What publication is this in?
existwhere? is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2008, 06:04 PM   #3
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
What's the big deal?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-30-2008, 07:21 PM   #4
existwhere?
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 690
As my father, who is yeshivish, would say, "Moshiach isn't only for the Lubavitchers."
existwhere? is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 11:40 AM   #5
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Everyone wants Moshiach. The question is only whether or not they think that that title belongs to the Rebbe. There are many people who are angry that Chabad has 'taken over' the idea of Moshiach, when the Geulah, and all related to it, belong to all of Klal Yisrael.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 12:18 PM   #6
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
Quote:
The question is only whether or not they think that that title belongs to the Rebbe.
That's not the only question. An additional question is whether they realize the essence of Mashiach and geulah and whether they are actively doing anything to speed it up.
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 12:22 PM   #7
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
That's not the only question. An additional question is whether they realize the essence of Mashiach and geulah and whether they are actively doing anything to speed it up.
Or just trying to "survive the war of Gog uMagog" (see the flier )
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 12:41 PM   #8
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
What was the first point mentioned on the flier? The avoidance was the second. Hopefully, second in importance. The third point should have come first.
And the fact that they are making a 'learning day' already speeds it up!
The attitude of 'what are they doing to bring Moshiach' only slows things down.
What are YOU doing to bring the Geulah? That's the only question you can ask...forget about them, concentrate on yourself.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 12:41 PM   #9
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
That's not the only question. An additional question is whether they realize the essence of Mashiach and geulah and whether they are actively doing anything to speed it up.
"Realize the essence of Mashiach?" What do you mean by this? (A cite to a sicha or a maamar would help).

Is your questoon: "Have they become Lubavitchers?" or is there something substantive that you're asking about?
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 12:46 PM   #10
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Ach, who cares if they've become Lubavitchers. Lubavitch doesn't have exclusive rights to Moshiach, and should not act as if they do.
And no one can state that they 'realize the essence of Moshiach'- one who does is fooling only himself.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 01:04 PM   #11
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Major- On point 1, I agree with you, and that's the point of my previous post. On point 2 - since we haven't established what "essence of Moshiach" means, I think its premature to talk about whether it can be understood.
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 01:18 PM   #12
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
The bigger question is: What shiurim are WE having on July 4th (when some of us are not working)?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 01:18 PM   #13
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
Oh, I takke hadn't read the ad. That IS a good idea.
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 04:03 PM   #14
existwhere?
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
That's not the only question. An additional question is whether they realize the essence of Mashiach and geulah and whether they are actively doing anything to speed it up.
What if they hold that the purpose of our lives is not to bring Moshiach?
Quote:
Originally Posted by existwhere? View Post
What publication is this in?
I'd like to see it inside.
existwhere? is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 05:08 PM   #15
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
For years and years, everytime there is a "litvishe/yeshivishe/veltishe" shiur or program or article about awaiting the geulah, or about related topics concerning Moshiach, I hear the same comments from the same type of people.
We create the stereotype, and then we make fun of them when they go against it.
And the bigger question (like someone pointed out): How do these type of comments help anyone?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 05:13 PM   #16
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by existwhere? View Post
What if they hold that the purpose of our lives is not to bring Moshiach?

I'd like to see it inside.
Take a look at the larger picture. It doesn't have to be 'in' anything, it's a flier like the ones they put up on all the bulletin boards and streetlamps. Sorry, but d-u-h...
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 05:25 PM   #17
existwhere?
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majorthinker View Post
Take a look at the larger picture. It doesn't have to be 'in' anything, it's a flier like the ones they put up on all the bulletin boards and streetlamps. Sorry, but d-u-h...
Thanks, didn't realize it was a flier, I thought it was in a Litvish publication.
existwhere? is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-01-2008, 05:28 PM   #18
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Next time open the attachment, and you'll realize....seichel, seichel.
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 06:10 PM   #19
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
Quote:
"Realize the essence of Mashiach?" What do you mean by this? (A cite to a sicha or a maamar would help).

Is your questoon: "Have they become Lubavitchers?" or is there something substantive that you're asking about?
Bosi LeGani, for example. Kuntres Inyonei HaChassidus. Pretty much any ma'amor by the Rebbe.

No, the question is not "have they become Lubavitchers?" The question is: have they realized that the essence of Mashiach is not peace in the whole world, end of disease, poverty and famine, resurrection of the dead, rebuilding of the Beis HaMikdosh, return to EY or the personality of Mashiach himself. While these are wonderful and holy things, they are hitzoinius. The pnimius is the achievement of the essential reason for the world's existence: dira betachtoinim and gilui ha'etzem in the gashmius of this world.

Therefore, I don't believe that everyone sees coming of Mashiach in the same light, with the exception of believing or not believing that the Rebbe has this role right now. I think much more important question is: does one see the essence of Mashiach and essence of yiddishkeit (see above).
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 06:13 PM   #20
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
Quote:
What if they hold that the purpose of our lives is not to bring Moshiach?
What do you want me to say? What if they think that Torah is an advice of Hashem how to build a successful community and nothing more?
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 06:20 PM   #21
Meshulam
Senior Diamond Member
 
Meshulam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,427
I always thought that the purpose of our lives was to do what Hashem wants. Perhaps I am naive.
Meshulam is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 06:35 PM   #22
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Stripped to its core, it all boils down to "my way or the highway".
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 07:38 PM   #23
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meshulam View Post
I always thought that the purpose of our lives was to do what Hashem wants.
Exactly. And it's the Rebbe himself who says that bringing Moshiach is what Hashem wants (expressed in oisios acheros by previous poster).

Quote:
Originally Posted by t613
Stripped to its core, it all boils down to "my way or the highway".
ישנה לזה דרך המלך מלכו של עולם, דרך סלולה ומבוארה על ידי חז"ל בכלל, נשיאי חב"ד בפרט, ונשיאנו הוא כ"ק מו"ח אדמו"ר הכ"מ ביחוד
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 08:25 PM   #24
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
Quote:
I always thought that the purpose of our lives was to do what Hashem wants. Perhaps I am naive.
So what does Hashem want? What is the ikkar of ratzon elyoin? Perhaps I am naive, but I thought it was dira betachtoinim, which is the ikkar of geula.

I don't understand the urge to make the point of view of our Rebbeim "just another shita".
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-03-2008, 09:10 PM   #25
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
There is no urge to make it just "another shita".
There is however, this tendency by some, to knock everyone else.
A poster wast posted, about a shiur in אחכה לו, and other related issues, which לכאורה should be very laudible. Why the need to knock it? The answer: Since they are not up to date in the Rebbe's maamorim and sichos about the topic [and some may add: "not up to date with the newest chiddushim in these inyonim by certain other people..."], and (gasp!) they may even have some different approaches, therefore it isn't worth anything (at least that is the tone coming out from some posters).
That attitude bothers some of us, and brings the worst out of us...

Last edited by Torah613; 07-06-2008 at 12:15 AM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good Litvish Rabbonim Groisah Tzaddik The Rabbeim & Gedolei Yisroel 59 06-25-2009 01:38 PM
Geulah dreams odisraelchai Chassidus 0 05-26-2008 09:30 AM
Litvish girl dating a Chabad guy on Shidduchim LitvishMeidel Lubavitch Derech 2 03-18-2008 09:35 AM
Litvish marrying a lubavitch toofrum4u Shidduchim & Marriage 77 09-21-2006 07:34 AM
Which comes first, Moshiach or geulah? Yankel Nosson Moshiach 31 09-04-2005 02:03 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com