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Unread 01-15-2009, 09:36 PM   #1
Remy
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Sacrifice

I understand it is more important to Hashem to receive our hearts then our burnt offerings and rams (Isa. 1:10-17), but why don't Jews do sacrifices anymore? Is it not necessary to forgive us of sins?


Once again, I am a humble gentile trying to learn. Forgive my ignorance.


with love,

Remy
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Unread 01-15-2009, 09:37 PM   #2
benyehudao
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because there is no tembel to which we is bringing no more sacrifice so we is praying instead from giving animal sacrificials.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 09:55 PM   #3
existwhere?
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Originally Posted by Remy View Post
I understand it is more important to Hashem to receive our hearts then our burnt offerings and rams (Isa. 1:10-17), but why don't Jews do sacrifices anymore? Is it not necessary to forgive us of sins?


Once again, I am a humble gentile trying to learn. Forgive my ignorance.


with love,

Remy
You are correct. Ignorance is easily remedied, with humility you can learn anything. I like our latest batch of new members.

Prayer is service of the heart. Service of the heart is more important to HaShem than service in the Temple. We don't do sacrifices because we no longer have the Temple, and it is not necessary to forgive our sins.
There are three steps to atoning for sin: Confessing, feeling true regret, and resolving never to do it again. You are correct that sacrifice is not necessary to forgive us of our sins.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 09:59 PM   #4
MahTovChelkeinu
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I would add that a person must make amends as much as he or she is able. For example returning stolen property. And this should come even before prayer.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 10:33 PM   #5
existwhere?
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I would add that a person must make amends as much as he or she is able. For example returning stolen property. And this should come even before prayer.
A very important point.
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Unread 01-15-2009, 11:53 PM   #6
Remy
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I know this religion is not spoken of here, and I completely understand why, but I heard a ******ian teacher once say that the sacrifices were more for us, to make us feel better and absolve guilt, to give us a physical sign that we were forgiven, than it was for G-d. He referenced HaShem in psalms saying "If I am hungry, do I come to you?" And again, "does the blood of a thousand rams satisfy me?" Though I can't remember the exact references.

How would you rate that thought? True or heretical?
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Unread 01-16-2009, 12:05 AM   #7
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Actually, the sacrafices are typically classified as "Chukim" which is a term for laws that defy logical explanation (as opposed to Mishpatim - logical laws - or eidim - laws that recall a historical event). Since they are chukim, I feel safe saying I have no idea what their purpose is.

I do know, however, that chassidus explains that sacrifices reflect the process in divine service that a man must follow. We have to take our bodies and our animal souls and sacrifice them to G-d through turning away from evil and turning over the physical into spiritual. This work is ultimately done for G-d's benefit, but at the same time the process of coming closer to G-d through "sacrificing" the animal soul is good for the person as well because it elevates him to a higher spiritual place and brings about Moshiach which is basically heaven on earth.
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Unread 01-16-2009, 12:08 AM   #8
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Heaven on Earth is an awesome concept. Should it be our goal to carry Heaven with us? Isn't feeding the poor, clothing the naked, etc, bringing Heaven to Earth for those people? So we should walk in that, right? Loving people of all kinds all the time?
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Unread 01-16-2009, 12:14 AM   #9
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Feeding the poor and clothing the naked is definitely important, and Judaism puts a strong emphasis on charity and tzedakka.

But... that's not all there is. Your idea of being a good person might (a) do more harm than good; (b) not be someone else's idea of a good person; and (c) not always resolve the difficult questions.

For example, there is a famous discussion in the Talmud about what to do with lost objects. On the one hand, the nice thing to do is to return the object. On the other, that is a tremendous burden to put on the finder if the lost object is, say, a live animal... shouldn't the loser be a good person and say "whoever finds it can keep it." And what if two people find the object who live in different cities? Who gets to keep it? Who has the burden to return it? Barring certain convenient circumstances there are not always clear answers to these questions.

So, the Torah tells us how to bring Heaven to Earth by fulfilling all of G-d's commandments. Some of the commandments might seem like there is a "nicer" option, but when the system is viewed as a whole you see that it is both just and indeed very geared toward helping people out.
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Unread 01-16-2009, 06:21 AM   #10
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...sacrifices... Is it not necessary to forgive us of sins?
No, they are not. For example, the Book of Jonah describes repentance by a whole non-Jewish city, but there's no mention of 'sacrifices'.

You need one of the anti-missionary sites, such as Outreach Judaism, Jews for Judaism, Messiah Truth, J.D. Stone, or Their Hollow Inheritance.

Why reinvent the wheel?
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Unread 01-16-2009, 10:48 AM   #11
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I prefer discussion to course material, however I don't mind doing some required reading -- if that makes sense.

Research is all fine and well, but more is discovered and deeper questions answered through dialogue.

Such as:

WHEN the temple is rebuilt, will we start giving sacrifices again?
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Unread 01-16-2009, 11:39 AM   #12
MahTovChelkeinu
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Yes.

JJ is correct that you should explore some of the good resources online. I think you will find that a little research goes a long way to enriching these discussions.
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Unread 01-17-2009, 03:37 PM   #13
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I like our latest batch of new members.
Does that include or exclude mine?
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Unread 01-17-2009, 08:17 PM   #14
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WHEN the temple is rebuilt, will we start giving sacrifices again?
Yes; may it be soon.
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Unread 01-17-2009, 10:04 PM   #15
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not acc to everyone and certainly not all korbanos...
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Unread 01-17-2009, 10:25 PM   #16
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According to which halachic authority will we not resume sacrifices with the coming of Moshiach (may it happen now)?!
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Unread 01-18-2009, 12:25 AM   #17
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According to which halachic authority will we not resume sacrifices with the coming of Moshiach (may it happen now)?!
(She doesn't read the same Torah as the rest of us. Remember that when you ask her for "sources.")
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Unread 01-18-2009, 02:35 AM   #18
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Which Torah does she read? :p


I saw a "Jewish Study Bible" With pages of footnotes at the bottom explaining cultural meanings and time-period references, and all kinds of awesome stuff. Thought it was neat. I was thinking only the ******ians had those kinds of things, and I was wrong.... I totally know what I want for my birthday!

So what version of the scriptures do you guys read? I assume there are different translations and alliterations of the texts?
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Unread 01-18-2009, 03:42 AM   #19
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Rav Kook holds there will only be non-animal korbanos.

Rambam in moreh nevuchim speaks very negatively about korbanos in general, 3:32.
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Unread 01-18-2009, 09:06 AM   #20
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I believe that is a (common) slight misinterpretation of R' Kook's position. Of course, if you can supply original cites or quotes, that would be helpful.
I for some reason doubt that he disagreed with nusach hatfilla...
What he does claim is, that at some advanced stage of Moshiach, animal sacrifices will be abolished. But he also agrees that in the initial stages of Moshiach, all sacrifices will be brought, including animal ones.
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Unread 01-18-2009, 10:27 AM   #21
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this is a chabad site and i am not understanding why we discuss what r kook holds. r kook real words so twisted by zionist that who know what he really say.

but when Machiah is here will non Jews also bring korbanoth? i am not thinking so but i am understanding maybe this possible.
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Unread 01-19-2009, 02:49 AM   #22
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I don't think there is even an actual requirement for Moshiach in order to bring Korbanoth.
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Unread 01-19-2009, 04:23 AM   #23
benyehudao
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I don't think there is even an actual requirement for Moshiach in order to bring Korbanoth.
\


so where you are going to bring them? every bet knesset maybe to have korbanoth in yard? what will say PETA?
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Unread 01-19-2009, 08:34 AM   #24
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this is a chabad site and i am not understanding why we discuss what r kook holds. r kook real words so twisted by zionist that who know what he really say.

but when Machiah is here will non Jews also bring korbanoth? i am not thinking so but i am understanding maybe this possible.
I fail to see why Rav Kook's holdings should not be discussed on this site, regardless of its affiliations and I also encourage you to speak with a little more caution about "the zionists" b/c you sound like those whom you would least want to emulate.
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Unread 01-19-2009, 09:19 AM   #25
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i don't think there is even an actual requirement for moshiach in order to bring korbanoth.
רמב"ם הל' מלכים פי"א ה"א: המלך המשיח עתיד לעמוד ולהחזיר ביד דוד לישנה הממשלה הראשונה ובונה מקדש ומקבץ נדחי ישראל וחוזרין כל המשפטים בימיו כשהיו מקודם מקריבין קרבנות וכו
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