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Unread 11-20-2007, 09:31 PM   #176
Torah613
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Oh please. Does it occur to anyone that I have work to do? That I do not always have exact dates at my fingertips? That I don't always have the right sefer in front of me to quote from?
No secret. I am, of course, referring to the unedited version of the LaPine sicha. I was intending to get the hanocho to quote from, but I didn't get around to getting it yet.
One would have thought that the beki'im in sichos 5752, would know that one. Instead, they accuse me of keeping secrets, and learning it "my way".
Whatever.
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Unread 11-20-2007, 09:44 PM   #177
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Oh please. Does it occur to anyone that I have work to do? That I do not always have exact dates at my fingertips? That I don't always have the right sefer in front of me to quote from?
No secret. I am, of course, referring to the unedited version of the LaPine sicha. I was intending to get the hanocho to quote from, but I didn't get aroung to it yet.
One would have thought that the beki'im in sichos 5752, would know that one. Instead, they accuse me of keeping secrets, and learning it "my way".
Whatever.
I really apologize. I have learned a strong lesson about being dan l'chaf zechus and about the need to be more patient.
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Unread 11-20-2007, 10:24 PM   #178
Torah613
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My comment, in the main part, was not directed to you...
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Unread 12-30-2007, 09:22 AM   #179
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Also, if you want to make the argument that this doesn't apply to someone who began peulos in the dor of geula and passed away before the geula, then again the Rambam would not have been able to say "b'yadua (it is known) that this is not the one the Torah promised" - because only Hashem would know if he passed away in the dor of geula or not. There's always a possibility that it's the dor of geula. Only Hashem knows. So the Rambam couldn't say "it is known he's not the one".
But in the current situation we don't need to guess about whether it's the generation of the ge'ulah, because the Rebbe repeatedly emphasised in the most certain terms that it is. So perhaps the response to your argument focussing on the word b'yadua is that if it wasn't known otherwise, the Rambam would tell us b'yadua that he wasn't the one, but the Rambam wasn't referring to a scenario where it is known that this is the dor ha'geulah.
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Unread 12-30-2007, 11:23 AM   #180
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if it wasn't known otherwise, the Rambam would tell us b'yadua that he wasn't the one
L'chora the Rambam would have to know for sure that it's not the dor of geula to be able to say "it is known" he's not the one, no? How would any generation of Jews know that their dor was definitely not the dor of geula? IOW, how can the din be "it is known he's not" when there is still a chance he is? Because if it happened to be the dor of geula (without it being announced by a navi, only Hashem would know) this melech might still come back to be Moshiach.

So the argument if he passes away in the middle of his mission in the dor of geula then he is not disqualified doesn't seem to make sense because of the Rambam's words "it is known".
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Unread 12-19-2012, 09:14 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
Rabbi_d


Please enlighten me:
Granted that there is no proof that the SC brought this letter IN ORDER to refute it - a view I never subscribed to - what does this SC prove beyond the fact that there are some who held this view and that it isn't apikursos.
It dosn't make it a correct view - there are many views which we regard as wrong w/o being apikursos.
The point to be debated - by us as Lub's - is the Halacha and Rebbe's views on this matter, and I think the discussion has to center around Rambam and the LS v35 mentioned above.
The Sdei Chemed, volume 7, tesheva ayin 70, is a brilliant explanation if the gemaras in Sanhedrin 38a and 98b, which Rabbi Yechezchel Medini quotes. It answers lots of questions about believing in ones rebbe as Moshiach, and that the ideal event is when Moshiach comes from among the deceased.
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