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Unread 12-29-2005, 10:05 AM   #1
noahidelaws
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The Rebbe's Chiddush in the Miracle of Chanukah

The Rebbe's explanation of the chiddush of Chanukah in Likutei Sichos v. 15 parshas Chayei Sara is famous: The miracle was "nimna ha'nimna'os"--that the natural oil stayed lit and shone itself, with no miraculous increase of oil, but without the oil decreasing (ayen shom ba'aruko).

But according to this reasoning, which indicates that the menorah was already full with oil from the end of the 7th day. If "ein Hakodosh Boruch Hu oseh niso lemagno," u'mah gam azah gevaldike nes azoi vi nimna ha'nimna'os, why would this miracle have occurred on the 8th day as well? The pre-existing oil could have continued. But from the sicha it's mashma that it occurred for all 8 days, and that's what we celebrate.

(If the nes as the Rebbe defines it lasted for all 8 days, it turns out that the menorah stayed lit from the jar that was found for 9 days, and that they didn't light the menorah from the new, non-miraculous oil until the end of the 9th day. Which is licho'oirah in itself a big chiddush, in addition to the etzem chiddush of saying that the miracle was "nimna ha'nimna'os".)

Vo'avakaish mi'korei ha'asar leho'ir einei bozeh.
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Unread 12-29-2005, 10:51 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws
The Rebbe's explanation of the chiddush of Chanukah in Likutei Sichos v. 15 parshas Chayei Sara is famous: The miracle was "nimna ha'nimna'os"--that the natural oil stayed lit and shone itself, with no miraculous increase of oil, but without the oil decreasing (ayen shom ba'aruko).

But according to this reasoning, which indicates that the menorah was already full with oil from the end of the 7th day. If "ein Hakodosh Boruch Hu oseh niso lemagno," u'mah gam azah gevaldike nes azoi vi nimna ha'nimna'os, why would this miracle have occurred on the 8th day as well? The pre-existing oil could have continued. But from the sicha it's mashma that it occurred for all 8 days, and that's what we celebrate.

(If the nes as the Rebbe defines it lasted for all 8 days, it turns out that the menorah stayed lit from the jar that was found for 9 days, and that they didn't light the menorah from the new, non-miraculous oil until the end of the 9th day. Which is licho'oirah in itself a big chiddush, in addition to the etzem chiddush of saying that the miracle was "nimna ha'nimna'os".)

Vo'avakaish mi'korei ha'asar leho'ir einei bozeh.
There has been lots and lots of ink spilled on that question.
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Unread 12-29-2005, 11:27 AM   #3
Torah613
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Where does it seem in the sicha that this nes happened the 8th day also?
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Unread 12-29-2005, 11:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws
Vo'avakaish mi'korei ha'asar leho'ir einei bozeh.
... and Torah learning enters the 21st century! Although the loshon would be lehoir bozeh, not lehoir einei.

I believe what Torah613 is trying to tell you (if not, it's what I thought anyway) that the chidush of the Rebbe is necessary for the 1st day to be a miracle as well, not the 8th, and therefore the oil would have decreased on the 8th day as new oil would be available for the next day. Chalk it up to ein lecho bo elo chidusho.
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Unread 12-29-2005, 12:06 PM   #5
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Some showed me a rabbi named Hecht that said the menorah = burning bush by Moshe..is this from the Rebbe?
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Unread 12-29-2005, 01:10 PM   #6
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"not lehoir einei"
I meant, "My eyes"--difficulty with transliteration.

Torah, Bittul: I guess the mashmo'us is from ois vov, where the Rebbe explains that davka acc. to the hesber of "nimna ha'nimna'os" the nes was ongoing and in an ofen golui. It thus seems unreasonable to say that this would only have occurred for 7 days, licho'oiro, because then es volt gefelt in the gilui ha'nes during that day. (Le'idoch, then the sha'alo arises about the status of the following day and the fact that it would have remained lit for an extra day): http://otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgserv....ilIF=G&ilSC=30

Gevurah, in the sicho the Rebbe draws the comparison with the sneh.
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Unread 12-29-2005, 01:15 PM   #7
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and I'd also like the distinguished posters who learn that the nes was only for 7 days to explain to me why we celebrate 8 days, leshitosom--ve'al derech kushyas haBeis Yosef?

Last edited by noahidelaws; 12-29-2005 at 01:18 PM.
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Unread 12-29-2005, 04:22 PM   #8
Torah613
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Which of 10,000 answers do you want?
Do a search in Haoros Ubiurim IIRC for this issue.
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Unread 12-30-2005, 02:20 AM   #9
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you mean on http://haoros.com/ ? I searched there, but found nothing.
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Unread 01-01-2006, 05:36 AM   #10
noahidelaws
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Quote:
There has been lots and lots of ink spilled on that question.
Yes? Could you refer me to a source? And if it's an obscure kovetz ha'oros, could you scan in some relevant material?

Another difficulty with saying that the miracle as the Rebbe defines it didn't occur on the 8th day is that it's the exact opposite of the way Zos Chanukah is spoken of by meforshim--as the day when the miracle is fully apparent and therefore the ikkar of Chanukah.
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Unread 01-01-2006, 06:57 AM   #11
Torah613
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Which meforshim are you referring to?
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Unread 01-09-2006, 06:02 AM   #12
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I don't have the sefer on hand, but it's in the likkut Yemei HaHanukah, in the section entitled Zos Chanukah.
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Unread 01-09-2006, 09:08 AM   #13
Torah613
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And that sefer is by whom (or is it another compilation of sichos)?
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Unread 01-11-2006, 05:01 AM   #14
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I'ts not a Chabad book. It's by Yitzchok Meir Berachiya Liberman, and the section on Zos Chanukah is pp. 332-336. The meforshim in that section are almost all from Chasidishe seforim such as the Sfas Emes, Yismach Yisroel, etc.
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Unread 01-11-2006, 09:14 AM   #15
Torah613
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Oh. Usually meforshim refers to meforshei hashas or meforshei hamikro. Sorry.
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Unread 01-11-2006, 10:40 PM   #16
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True, I apologise for the inaccuracy.

Anyway, benogei'a le'inyoneinu, I saw a nice explanation on this inyan with mekoros that aren't referred to in the sicha in a book called Hegyonei Torah (I forget the name of the author). He learns that the nes was about eichus, and is apparently unaware of the problems with that.
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Unread 01-11-2006, 11:10 PM   #17
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Hegyonei halocho by R' Mirsky ( ).
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Unread 01-16-2006, 11:31 PM   #18
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oops! didn't have the sefer on me--thanks
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