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Unread 02-22-2011, 01:44 AM   #1
Harry Hoodle
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Havoro Ashkenazis

I live in Melbourne Australia. For some reason that is neither comprehensible not logical the Lubavitch girls school teaches the girls in Havoro Sefardis. I am compiling sources for changing it to Havoro Ashkenazis. Please advise of any sources you might have. I'll post some stuff now and more later.

Thanks
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Rebbe Letter to Reb Zalman re Havoro.pdf (67.6 KB, 304 views)
File Type: pdf Gurweicz Yechidus notes.pdf (78.5 KB, 315 views)
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Unread 02-22-2011, 03:01 AM   #2
Torah613
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Doesn't the yechidus say it all?
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Unread 02-22-2011, 03:28 AM   #3
Harry Hoodle
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Reliability and evidence issues

It would be if it were reliable or there was evidence. Something strange happened between the Rebbe saying not to change it and it changing and then a request to change it back.

Anyway the issue should be re-assessed in light of nearly 40 years since the Yechidus.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 08:06 AM   #4
noahidelaws
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If you don't think the Yechidus is reliable, then why post it?
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Unread 02-22-2011, 08:31 AM   #5
danzinger
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Nu, and if he hadn't posted it, nobody would have complained?
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Unread 02-22-2011, 08:36 AM   #6
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Hoodle View Post
It would be if it were reliable or there was evidence. Something strange happened between the Rebbe saying not to change it and it changing and then a request to change it back.

Anyway the issue should be re-assessed in light of nearly 40 years since the Yechidus.
Who said it ever changed? I understand the letter as telling him to change to Ashkenazis (or perhaps to start of like that) without fanfare. Obviously, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Once the fact WAS that they were using Safardis, the Rebbe many years later said that it is not worth changing. [Of course, you may want to investigate what the actual sequence of events were].

If "times changed" (which might be the case - I have no idea) - what relevance to old letters, yechidus'n and the like have?

I also concur with Noah's question.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 08:37 AM   #7
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danzinger View Post
Nu, and if he hadn't posted it, nobody would have complained?
Hard to complain about something we don't know about...

As far as the actual issue (without regard to a specific place), you may want to look in שערי הלכה ומנהג. There should be some answers there IIRC.
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Unread 02-22-2011, 08:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Who said it ever changed? I understand the letter as telling him to change to Ashkenazis (or perhaps to start of like that) without fanfare. Obviously, for whatever reason, that didn't happen. Once the fact WAS that they were using Safardis, the Rebbe many years later said that it is not worth changing.
This was my understanding of the issue too. Besides which, the accepted pronunciation in E"Y today is the Sephardi one, despite the Rebbe's conjectures in the first letter.
Whether or not the notes of the yechidus are reliable, there only seems to be one way of interpreting them, even though they are "based on memory".
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Unread 02-23-2011, 08:44 PM   #9
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I have erased posts containing conjecture that, as Torah613 says, are perhaps better aired in some local forum. This is not a forum for the discussion of local politics. Please confine this discussion to the Rebbe's general guidelines, and minhag Chabad on the usage of havarah Ashkenazis vs. havarah Sefaradit.
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Unread 02-23-2011, 09:43 PM   #10
Harry Hoodle
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Point taken all.

I am still looking for mekoros for different things that the Rebbe/im said about havoro.

I have a few things which I have gleaned off other posts:

- Likutei Diburim p תיט (Sefer Hasichos 5703 p 70). See also letter of the Rashab in Igros v 2 p 816.
- Igros Kodesh v 8 p 146.

I am in the process of researching more but would appreciate others' feedback.

Thanks
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