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Unread 03-10-2005, 10:48 AM   #1
wannabe
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Vos Zol Men Ton Az Es Davvent Zich Nisht?

VOS ZOL MEN TON AZ ES DAVVENT ZICH NISHT?

What's the answer (what worked for you)?
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Unread 03-10-2005, 11:05 AM   #2
hishtatchus
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Bepashtus, or nisht kedeboi?
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Unread 03-10-2005, 09:05 PM   #3
Dr. Yisroel
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Learn a little about each tefila and pirush hamilos. Works great!
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Unread 03-10-2005, 11:26 PM   #4
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I find that Chasidus Lifnei Tefilla really clears the mind especialy shuir tanya!
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Unread 03-11-2005, 02:36 PM   #5
chasidus
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I reacently heard a story by a fabrengen as to the reosen why why we learn chassidus before davening as apose do drinking mashke (one reosen that you cant drink mashkeh in the middle of davvening but one can re look over the ma'amer chassidus) but that once the Tz"tz was given by his a gabai (Mas"bak) a "tumbler" of mashkeh before davenin in stead of his usual water after davening he commentend that he davend escpecialy well that day. when asked he does institute that the chassidim should do likewise he commented " I want that the chassidim should daven not the mashke.
the secret to davening is no secret it says all over in chasidus (look at kuntres hatfilah etc') is through learning about and thinking chasidus at length before davening in a way thet you should take to heart the topics you are learning not just to learn chassidus as if it where a philosify etc' etc'
the iker is that "we" should daven and not the mashke... l'chaim
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Unread 03-13-2005, 09:51 AM   #6
trulyseven
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davening

the thing is that even to study chassidus, sometimes you dont feel like it.
For me what works, is that you cannot take for grated everything you have in life, even if you consider that you dont have anything, the fact that you got outof bed this morning,is allready something, so you must be thankfull to Hashem for that, i feel so guilty if i dont daven and plus,every word in the davening,is concerning our well beeing, for sure that we also praise GD but still, we ask for everything in the davening, and Hashem feel so proud when we are the one who ask because He Realise and we also do that Without Him we are nothing and if Hashem was not helping us, we wouldnt be here
and if you are lucky enough to go on a computer and on chabadtalk.com, that means you are not that bad in davening, if you ask the question also means that it bothers yu so you know exactly what you should be doing 4times a day with kavonoh!!
good luck!!
Eysen Eys zich, tricken trick zich, Daven dav zich.....lol
(im bad in yiddish)
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Unread 04-16-2005, 10:34 PM   #7
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Davening Better

I found that when you really daven slow and really think of every word, makes a world of a diffrence! I tried this on my b-day where the Rebbe writes to Daven with more Kavana and I felt soooo good!
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Unread 04-16-2005, 11:18 PM   #8
mordechai7215
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I once heard a cart in the name of the Rosh:
In the earlier years the they would sing the nigun by Rebbe very often but after Lukitie sichos came out they stoped. The reason? No one can say vus zol men tun as men davent zich nisht once there are so many sichos to learn.
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Unread 04-16-2005, 11:37 PM   #9
stam a bachur
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The way to do it is through having 'hachono lt'filla'. saying karbonos like a mentch and a perek tanya or even a few lines of tanya before davening puts you in davening mode.just throwing on tefilin and speeding through karbonos won't do it for most people. obviously, learning chasidus is choice number one but if for some reason its not possiball going slowly through those few "paragraphs before hodu" should make you 'daven zich'
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Unread 04-19-2005, 10:01 PM   #10
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Wink

i once heard a story regarding Reb Mendel Futerfas that he was once at a meal at the table with all the Rabbi's that were there (mistameh the 'head table') and when the food came out he ate some then he put his fork down and started humming 'essen ess zich...'
When his neighbor-Rabbi heard him, he slowly and quietly put down his fork, and started humming along... You know the rest of the story.
(kind of has nothing to do w/ this thread, but watevr!)
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Unread 05-07-2005, 04:14 AM   #11
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Making Davening real: A story

I hope the following true story makes an impression...

A few years ago in a Lubavitcher Yeshiva, a bochur approached a Mashpia he was very close with and told him that he refuses to daven today. He went on to explain that he was very upset about a certain tragedy that happened in Eretz Yisroel, and he feels that he shouldnt daven today..

The Mashpia told him as follows. "Ok, I understand. Dont daven. All I want you to do is to put on your Tefilin, and speak to Hashem no differantly thatn you would speak to a friend. Tell Him that you are upset with him, express your feelings and why you feel you shouldnt daven...

Later in the day, the Bochur approached the Mashpia and thanked him saying that it was his best davening he ever had. Obviously, he davened in the end, but this time, the words meant something...

Of course, you can get the wrong message from the story, and the Mashpia took a risk with the answer, but it seemed to have worked for that bochur.
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Unread 05-07-2005, 08:55 PM   #12
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I believe the Rebbe taught Tzama lcha nafshi on parshas kedoshim and after he sung it a few times the Rebbe said But we dont feel it... So well sing Esen Es Zich...
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Unread 03-31-2006, 10:48 AM   #13
ykh
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One of my Rabbis is really working on his davening. You can see, how he approaches the whole thing as a hard work, you can see (if you look closely, he is not for show), how he puts effort into saying words.
I asked him how he stays focused and so on. His answer: "There is no easy way, it is a struggle from one word to another".
One year he was saying kaddish for his father and happened to be once in 770, he collected a minyan and started to daven. Everybody quickly realized they are caught in limbo: He was slowly saying every word aloud. The rest was circling around him, feeling guilty just to break off, looking at the watch, at the wall clock, waiting for Amido, but he did not look around did not pay attention to it, he was in the middle of hard work.
I don't thing a page of Tanya would put you into proper state of mind, it should be very hard learning to prepare one really for davening, but then the question is - how to learn so intencively, so it would put you intp proper frame of mind for davening.
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Unread 04-02-2006, 12:47 AM   #14
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Learning Chassidus before Davening really helps put me in the right frame of mind, but... then I get sooo distracted cuz every ten seconds another thought or 'click' from whatever I just learnt pops into my head!
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Unread 02-18-2009, 02:20 AM   #15
emes m'eretz
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I remember a story about two Chassidim in the olden days. (I don't remember the names.)

One complained to the other that before davening he thinks about Hashem, and he becomes very inspired and feels very close to Hashem. But afterwards when he davens, it's not with the same enthusiasm.

The other Chossid answered: "Un vos art es dir az du davenst farin davinen?" (So why should it bother you if you daven before davening?)
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Unread 02-18-2009, 06:06 AM   #16
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"a bissle fun dos un a bissle fun dos" a person shouldn't expect to daven every day with kavana in every word, it takes years. what they can do is start with at least saying one part with kavana.
I heard the the old chassidim used to divide the davening into the days of the year, starting rosh Hashana(or is it yom kippur?...) because according to...( the zohar?) at the end of the year all the tefilos you said with kavana go up to shamayim, so at least they would have one full davening at the end of the year.

also, different people have different ways of avoda. Some choose to try to do everything perfectly and fully every single day anew, and some add a little at a time until it comes naturally. I read ("חסידים ראשונים") about two chassidim of the alter Rebbe, one was a pnimi: every day he wuld daven the same way-completely still and concentrated. and the other was bechinas " חסיד בא, חסיד הולך": some days he would daven with all his might, some days he would mumble through it as fast as he could. but they were both the Alter Rebbe's chassidim.
i have found with myself that when i try to do too much at once i end up giving it up completely, but my yeitzer hara doesn't notice (as much..) when i add one little thing at a time.
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Unread 04-27-2009, 10:17 PM   #17
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Saying tefilla kodem hatefillah from R' Elimelech of Lizhenk never fails to inspire me.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 09:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
I heard the the old chassidim used to divide the davening into the days of the year
Of course, that meant that they would only davven with full lengthy hisbonenus when it came to certain parts of davvenen. However, they would certainly always davven with pirush ha'milos.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 12:11 PM   #19
MahTovChelkeinu
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I did this as a project during Elul and the Aseres Y'mei Teshuvah this year - dividing up the brochos of the Amidah. Each davening I took a different paragraph (just one paragraph) and tried to spend at least a full minute (if not 2 or 3) thinking about it at length. I tried to daven the rest of the Amidah at a slightly slower pace but made no special effort. It made for a totally different davening during Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor, really worth the time.

Some are really easy, for example in Refoeinu you can just think of all the various people in your life that need a refuah and devote a few seconds each to silent yearning for a cure.

It occured to me then that it would not be difficult so to daven Amidah for a full hour (which sounds like a really daunting task). Just devote 3 minutes to each of the 19 paragraphs plus 3 minutes extra in the beginning or end. 3 minutes spent thinking about the avos, or the need for a refuah, or the sound of the great shofar, doesn't seem like such an impossible task after all.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 06:16 PM   #20
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I take it that you studied sources inside to know what to contemplate about during each beracha.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 06:36 PM   #21
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I don't have to much time to foul myself with isbonenus, so I go with learning something before and perush hamilos
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Unread 04-28-2009, 06:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
I did this as a project during Elul and the Aseres Y'mei Teshuvah this year - dividing up the brochos of the Amidah. Each davening I took a different paragraph (just one paragraph) and tried to spend at least a full minute (if not 2 or 3) thinking about it at length. I tried to daven the rest of the Amidah at a slightly slower pace but made no special effort. It made for a totally different davening during Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippor, really worth the time.

Some are really easy, for example in Refoeinu you can just think of all the various people in your life that need a refuah and devote a few seconds each to silent yearning for a cure.

It occured to me then that it would not be difficult so to daven Amidah for a full hour (which sounds like a really daunting task). Just devote 3 minutes to each of the 19 paragraphs plus 3 minutes extra in the beginning or end. 3 minutes spent thinking about the avos, or the need for a refuah, or the sound of the great shofar, doesn't seem like such an impossible task after all.
That sounds amazing. I have trouble even keeping my mind on peirush hamilois for Shmoneh Esrei.

How do you focus so long? For me it would become making up my own peirush on the milois time.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 08:08 PM   #23
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I take it that you studied sources inside to know what to contemplate about during each beracha.
I did not go and find a specific source for each section before davening (though that would certainly enhance the exercise a great deal). I focused on perush hamilos and on what that perush means practically. Where I had learned something related to a section, I tried to incorporate it. So for example, I had learned something regarding the three kodoshim (torah, mitzvos, teshuva) in the third paragraph so that helped.

In the fourth I had kavanah that (among other things) Hashem should give me a proper chochmah bina v'daas to understand the milos since even the biggest baalei chassidus can always understand them better.

Quote:
That sounds amazing. I have trouble even keeping my mind on peirush hamilois for Shmoneh Esrei.

How do you focus so long? For me it would become making up my own peirush on the milois time.
Like I said, it really isn't so long for just one paragraph. I imagine you spend a minute many days thinking about, for example (V'Lamalshinim), how you hope Hashem will remove all obstacles from your way and destroy those who would try to harm the Jewish people or Torah. Just try to take that minute during Shemonah Esrei.

I think the Rebbe Rashab's caution in Kuntres Hatefillah concerning inventing chidushim during davening is more about trying to come up with clever diyukim in the words or making clever kabbalistic perushim that might be genuinely incorrect. I don't think he was concerned that a person could go wrong by simply meditating on the basics of the words (and in fact he specifically advises that approach to those who have no time to learn).

But just simply taking the perush hamilos ("Blessed are you God, Our Master and Master of our Fathers, Master of Abraham, Master of Yitzchok, and Master of Yaakov") and thinking about each one for a few seconds (This amazing G-d was the driving force and guiding light of Abraham, Yitzchok and Yaakov whose stories inspired me so much such as when Abraham did.... all of that was for the same G-d I am praying to right now) you can easily fill up one or two minutes. And those two minutes make the whole davening worth it. And he or she who adds, will benefit.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 08:38 PM   #24
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I don't think he was concerned that a person could go wrong by simply meditating on the basics of the words (and in fact he specifically advises that approach to those who have no time to learn
Really? Where was that in Kuntres Hetefila? I missed it.
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Unread 04-28-2009, 08:50 PM   #25
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Chapter 16 was what I had in mind. There he instructs business people to try to arouse in themselves a broken heart that they spend so much time discussing business instead of Torah, then that they should prevail upon themselves to learn at least a little bit, and then to daven with concentration on perush hamilos.

Chapter 14 however also relates. There he discusses young bochurim who are not yet totally prepared for proper meditation. He thus advises prayer should be deliberate and that the bochurim should focus specifically on perush hamilos.

This is important because the implication is that if one hasn't really gotten his head around some of the sources you might suggest him to learn, nonetheless the Rebbe emphasizes that focus on perush hamilos is proper.

Perhaps the ease in missing bits like this is why the Rashab recommended chazering Kuntres Hatefillah every three months
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