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Unread 12-12-2010, 03:06 PM   #1
Yissachar
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Rashi on Daniel 7:25: Moshiach in 2011?!

R.David Katz in his talk "5771 -The Geulah Rashi Ramban Zohar" http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/David_Katz/
claims from calculations that not only do the Zohar and Ramban indicate 5771-5774 as being likely Geulah years, but also Rashi on Daniel 7:25
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager....gnum=71&hilite=, particularly this year 2011, noch!
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Unread 12-12-2010, 03:56 PM   #2
chossidnistar
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Originally Posted by Yissachar View Post
R.David Katz in his talk "5771 -The Geulah Rashi Ramban Zohar" http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/David_Katz/
claims from calculations that not only do the Zohar and Ramban indicate 5771-5774 as being likely Geulah years, but also Rashi on Daniel 7:25
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager....gnum=71&hilite=, particularly this year 2011, noch!
we have a possible calculation for almost every sinle year since 2000 years ago, to be the likely Geulah year
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Unread 12-12-2010, 05:38 PM   #3
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What lends extra weight is the Zohar's explicit reference to the years '72' and '73'.

Plus all the goyim yearning for something big in 2012.

Plus Ahmadinejad/N.Korea likely to use an atom bomb/be atom bombed soon.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 05:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Yissachar View Post
What lends extra weight is the Zohar's explicit reference to the years '72' and '73'.
5572-5573 or 5672-5673 or in another year ending by 72-73?

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Originally Posted by Yissachar View Post
Plus all the goyim yearning for something big in 2012.
The goyim yearned for something big in 2000. I remember well! Thera are also some other dates in the past that goyim expected to be the end of days.

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Plus Ahmadinejad/N.Korea likely to use an atom bomb/be atom bombed soon.
So what about what happened during the Holocaust? Do you think it wasn't enough for Moshiach to come? In other words, we have an Ahmadinejad in every generation, but Moshiach is still not among us...

Be careful with such things. Nobody knows when, so to give some dates is dangerous, to say the least.

And btw, I though that we could read through the Rebbe's sichos and even in the Zohar that the Geulah will happen in 5770.

So...
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Unread 12-12-2010, 06:10 PM   #5
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As the Malbim (who himself calculated that the Geulah would happen in 1928!) says, the golus has gone of for so long, and the populace become so inured to the concept of Moshiach, that there is no longer a prohibition for a talmid chochom to give a reasoned calculation based on Daniel's numbers 1290 and 1335 etc.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 07:00 PM   #6
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As the Malbim (who himself calculated that the Geulah would happen in 1928!) says, the golus has gone of for so long, and the populace become so inured to the concept of Moshiach, that there is no longer a prohibition for a talmid chochom to give a reasoned calculation based on Daniel's numbers 1290 and 1335 etc.
So it's like a game. I see.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 07:20 PM   #7
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As the Alter Rebbe states, it's not like a game: it is a game - and purely for Hashem's own amusement, even if at our 'expense'.

But we, as descendants of Yitzchok, get to share in His Last Laugh at the Keitz.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 07:46 PM   #8
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Looks like competition to "Lazer beams".

We used to have a thread full of these "prophecies" -
http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=5338

Or last years thread: http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=10632
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Unread 12-12-2010, 08:16 PM   #9
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ahhhh...some souvenirs.
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Unread 12-12-2010, 09:35 PM   #10
aaron benjamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yissachar View Post
What lends extra weight is the Zohar's explicit reference to the years '72' and '73'.

Plus all the goyim yearning for something big in 2012.

Plus Ahmadinejad/N.Korea likely to use an atom bomb/be atom bombed soon.
I am not holding my breath, but I do hope that the geulah will come soon be'H. If so many Rabbonim are saying that the geulah will come soon, then why are we still waiting in galus? I hope that Hashem will prove them to be right soon.
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Unread 12-13-2010, 03:43 AM   #11
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הַיּוֹם - אִם בְּקֹלוֹ תִשְׁמָעוּ
תהלים צה, ז
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Unread 12-13-2010, 01:19 PM   #12
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הַיּוֹם - אִם בְּקֹלוֹ תִשְׁמָעוּ
תהלים צה, ז
I hear. Does this mean that when all people will follow the Torah then Mashiach will come or maybe the Mashiach will compel all of the people to observe the Torah as may be implied by the Rambam? What do you think?
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Unread 12-13-2010, 09:09 PM   #13
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both
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Unread 12-14-2010, 01:43 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by aaron benjamin View Post
I hear. Does this mean that when all people will follow the Torah then Mashiach will come
Upon heavenly clouds
Quote:
or maybe the Mashiach will compel all of the people to observe the Torah as may be implied by the Rambam?
Riding a donkey
Quote:
What do you think?
What I think is irrelevant. The fact is that Rambam also wrote explicitly that nobody will know how it will be until it happens.

On a lighter note: I once heard that there is a calculation that the Rebbe must reappear by his 118th birthday...


...so that people don't have to read perek קיט of Tehillim every day...
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Unread 12-14-2010, 10:16 AM   #15
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On a lighter note: I once heard that there is a calculation that the Rebbe must reappear by his 118th birthday...


...so that people don't have to read perek קיט of Tehillim every day...
I thought I heard everything, but we are trying to reach record highs
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Unread 12-14-2010, 04:44 PM   #16
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Katz's calculation based on a close reading of Rashi appears to be 3830+1335+600+6 = 5771
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Unread 12-14-2010, 06:57 PM   #17
Torah613
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ברוך שמסר עולמו לשומרים, that know how to read a Rashi "closely".
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Unread 12-14-2010, 10:04 PM   #18
aaron benjamin
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Originally Posted by Yissachar View Post
Katz's calculation based on a close reading of Rashi appears to be 3830+1335+600+6 = 5771
Very interesting thank you. Were you able to double check (or understand this yourself) in Rashi?
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Unread 12-15-2010, 06:40 AM   #19
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Yeranen Yaakov's opinion of Katz's 5771 prediction:
http://yeranenyaakov.blogspot.com/20...edictions.html


New 5771 Geula Predictions
Hat tip to Shirat Devorah, who referred me to this shiur. Rabbi David Katz has a shiur on TorahAnytime (listen here) where he takes the Zohar, Rashi, and the Ramban - and uses their wording to show how they all predict a 5771 Geula. I hope I understood the shiur correctly - if anyone understood it differently than I present it here, please let me know. Note that much of what he says is not the literal meaning of their words, but he claims that this could be an intended meaning of their words, al derech drush.
Before he does that, he notes 2 Gematrias:
1) Daniel 12:12 אשרי המחכה ויגיע - the word המחכה ("he that waits") can be reconstructed as 5770 in the following way:
•ה - stands for 5000
•כה - the 25th letter of the alef bet is ן with a gematria of 700
•מח - in א"ת ב"ש is יס, which = 70
2) The word הכרמל (the Carmel) can also have the gematria of 5770 as follows:

•ה - stands for 5000
•כ - really is ך, which = 500
•רמל - which = 270
He further notes that being off by a year is OK in year calculations, so any calculations for 5770 can also mean 5771.
Back to his dealing with the sources. He says that the Hurban of the second Beit Hamikdash occurred in 3830 (unlike many Jewish sources which say it occurred in 3828, but he is taking the secular date of 70 CE).

•First, he takes the Ramban in Sefer HaGeula:

ודע, כי חכמי המשנה מעידים בביאור, כי רומה תפסה מלכות על [אנשי] בית שני, בנצחם את היונים, מזמן
מאתים ושש שנה קודם החרבן, וכשתוסיף המספר הזה על
אלף של״ה, שהוא קץ גאלתנו השלמה, נמצא שעמדנו תחת
יד רומה ושכניה, אשר מכרה אותנו להם, אלף תק״מ שנה
כי שנת אלף של״ה בה תהיה גאלתנו שלמה. אשרי המחכה
ויגיע אליה.

So you add 3830 + 1335 (years in Daniel 12:12) + 206 (years Rome ruled before the Hurban) = 5371
Then, he takes the Ramban in the end of Sefer HaGeula:

ואולי הרמז אשר יעדנו לו בתחלת
דברינו מפרשת
כי תוליד בנים, הוא מפסוק: בצר לך
ומצאוך כל הדברים האלה באחרית הימים ושבת עד ה׳
,אלהיך וגו׳
כי אם תספור לך ומצאוך כל הדברים האלה
,באחרית הימים יעלה בידך לחשבון הגימטריא, אלף רצ״א
כמספר, אשר מן החרבן השני הנרמז בפרשה
עד ביאת
הגואל הראשון משיח בן אפרים
where he takes the word כמספר which itself has the gematria of 400. So, 5371 + 400 = 5771.

•Next, he discusses the Vilna Gaon, who many wrongly predicted a 5750 Geula from his words. Rabbi Katz says that the Vilna Gaon wrote it in 5520 - not in 5500 - so when the Vilna Gaon divided the last 500 years of history in half, he claims it should be pushed off by 20 years, bringing us to 5770.
•Next, the Zohar in Parshat Pinhas 249b:
ואי תימא דלע׳ תחיל ולב׳ שנין אולידת, בתר אלף ומאתן
בחושבן רע״ב

Partially based on the Sulam, Rabbi Katz explains that 3830 + 1200 = 5030. Add another 200 as the Sulam says = 5230. Add another 200 (I don't know where Rabbi Katz gets this from) = 5430. Add 70 = 5500. Add the 272 = 5772, but since we're in the 272nd year, we can say this equates to 5771.
•Next, he takes the Zohar Vayera 119a and Zohar Pinhas 252a and the Haza"l that 2 years were subtracted to ונושנתם, which means that 2 years will be subtracted from the final Geula too. He then does a calculation based on the word שש equaling 600 to come to 5771. (Too technical to get into the calculation.)
•Next, he takes the Rashi on Daniel 7:25, where he says:

עד עידן ועידנין ופלג עידן - קץ סתום הוא זה כאשר נאמר לדנייאל סתום הדברים וחתום ודרשוהו הראשונים איש לפי דעתו וכלו הקצים ויש לנו לפותרו עוד כאשר ראיתי כתוב בשם רב סעדיה הם אלף וג' מאות ול"ה שנים האמור בסוף הספר אשרי המחכה וגו' ופי' המועד עד עת שני עתים וחצי עת ואמר שהעתים הם ד' מאות ופ' שמיום צאתם ממצרים עד שנבנה הבית, וד' מאות ועשר ימי מקדש ראשון הרי תת"ץ ועוד חצי העת הזה תמ"ה הרי אל"ף של"ה את אלה חשוב מעת הוסר התמיד עד שוב זבח התמיד אל מקומו והוא הוסר שש שנים לפני החורבן ויש קצת ראיה בספר זה, ועוד יש מביאין ראיה לחשבון זה הסתר אסתיר פני הסתר אסתיר בגי' אלף ושל"ה

Rabbi Katz says that לפני החורבן means at the Hurban, you are looking ahead of you. He also says that בספר should be read Bisfar (i.e. in the number). He further says that the underlined word שש equals 600 in gematria + ויש קצת means take the literal word שש which is smaller to mean 6. So, 3830 + 1335 + 606 = 5771.

------------

Now, all this is a stretch as I said - it is definitely not the literal meaning of these sefarim. Rabbi Katz will likely say that the words were purposely coded to not allow their meaning to be revealed until it is close to the Geula. Whatever it is, it is a nice Drush on their holy words. Whether it is Emet or not, time will tell.
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Unread 12-15-2010, 09:22 AM   #20
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Unread 12-15-2010, 10:17 AM   #21
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And this is what is referred to as a "close reading of Rashi"?
Whatever.
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Unread 12-15-2010, 10:50 AM   #22
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when you look so so close at something you can't see anything
I would say that this is a very far look at Rashi
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Unread 12-15-2010, 01:39 PM   #23
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when you look so so close at something you can't see anything
I would say that this is a very far look at Rashi
"Very far" You are too kind with him.
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Unread 12-15-2010, 01:59 PM   #24
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"Very far" You are too kind with him.
I Mean "far away"
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Unread 12-15-2010, 06:14 PM   #25
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I Mean "far away"
When you say 'far away' do you mean by that that you are skeptical about this calculation?
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