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Unread 06-05-2002, 03:20 PM   #1
Skeptical
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Satmar Rebbe & the Rebbe

I'm interested in knowing more about the relationship between the Satmar Rebbe (not his Chassidim) and the Rebbe. Does anyone know actual stories/facts/quotes?
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Unread 06-05-2002, 03:42 PM   #2
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We'll start with the fact that in 1965, when the Rebbe was siting Shivah for his mother, the Satmar Rov came to be Menachem Ovel. I think the Rebbe also once went (in the 50's) to be Menachem Ovel him.

There is also somethin in Chaium Gutnik's stories about the Rebbe telling him of his yachas with the Stamar Rov.

After the Six Day War, when the Rebbe took a very pro-Israel stand, the friendship soured.

But even in the 70's, when Lub's used to go on Tahalucha on Acharon Shel Pesach to Williamsburg, R Laibel Groner used to go oover to the Rov to talk to him (that was the story then).
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Unread 06-05-2002, 11:00 PM   #3
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Todays Satmar Rebbe is an ayneekel of ba'al hatanyah
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Unread 06-05-2002, 11:16 PM   #4
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From the Satmar Perspective

Here's a story (from the Satmar perspective - I heard this from a Kli Sheini (Rabbi L. from LA) who heard it from the Baal Hamaaseh):

Rabbi Bukiet Z"L was once sitting in the park with his son (I think Alti who is now in Massachusetts), next to him was a Chassidisher yungerman watching his kids playing with each other. The guy approaced R' Bukiet and asked him if he was Lubavitch, when he responded positively, the Chassid told him "I have a story to tell you about your Rebbe":

"I was childless for many years and as a Satmar Chassid I came to my Rebbe for a Brochah. My Rebbe responded by saying "far di zachen gei tzu yenem (=the Lubavitcher Rebbe)

[This is the punchline of the story, but I'll continue with the rest of it --Tzemach]

"I came to the Rebbe and after giving me a Brachah he asked me to Chazer over something from the Satmar Rebbe! I wasn't prepared for this and I couldn't come up with anything. Finally I reminded myself a question that the SR asked by a Siyum, and the Rebbe asked me to repeat it.

"The question was this: It says that afilu posh'ei yisroel mlei'im mitzvos kerimon, asked the SR: 'If Toras Emes calls these these people Poshei Yisroel, that means that they are takeh resha'im gemurim; how then can it proceed to say that they are full with Mitzvos like a pomegranate?!...'

"As I repeated the question the Rebbe's face became very serious, and the Rebbe said: 'I had the same question, uber bai mir iz geven shver farkert: If Toras Emes states that these people are full with mitzvos kerimon - then it must be that this is indeed the case. How then can it call them poshei yisroel?!'"

After repeating this story R' Bukeit would say: "Look at the difference... this was our Rebbe, a true Ohev Yisroel".

In Hiskashrus # 391 the following was printed (from a letter that R' Aharon Moshe Klein wrote to the Rebbe):

"Two weeks ago I met R' Shick, the Dayan of Takai, and he told me that he was once in front of the Satmar Rebbe (ZT"L) and people were speaking about Lubavitch. The Satmerer stopped them and said 'How do you dare to speak against Lubavitch, when they are bringing Yiddishkeit to places no one has ever set foot in'".

***

In Hiskashrus (B'shalach 5762) R' Levi Fisher a Shliach in Argentina writes:

R' Leibel Groner would visit him for many years, give him prisas shalom from the Rebbe, and ask him for permission for lubs to speak in his Shuls (this continued until 2 years before his petirah when he became very sick R"L)

Rabbi Leib Shapiro (Rosh Yeshivah of Miami) tells that every year when the SR would come to Miami for the summer months, they would make a minyan in his (the SR's house). When R' Shapiro would come they would be always be machabed him and give him a seat on the mizrach wall.
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Unread 06-05-2002, 11:21 PM   #5
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Doesn't Satmar and Chabad have a bad relationship?? (If our Rebbe and theirs are so close what happened w/ the chassidim?)
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Unread 07-22-2002, 04:54 AM   #6
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Underground Connection

Lately I've been hearing about a secret connection between Rabbi Groner and the previous Satmar Rebbe's secretary Rabbi Ashkenazi - that even at times when the masses were'nt getting along so well, there were direct messages always going back and forth between The Rebbe and the Satmar Rebbe. Can anyone verify this?
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Unread 08-05-2002, 09:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by NevEr
Doesn't Satmar and Chabad have a bad relationship?? (If our Rebbe and theirs are so close what happened w/ the chassidim?)
It was "Good" until the Satmers attacked us
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Unread 08-06-2002, 04:31 AM   #8
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Yeah, them Satmers.... Just to play yenem's advocate for a moment - imagine yourself in their position - members of a group with whom you have total ideological disagreement insist on sending people to your neighborhood to preach their ideas, and go so far as to, while in a position of trust in your schools, teach this "opposing" view - how would you feel / react?
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Unread 08-15-2002, 04:13 PM   #9
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Vusveisichuber, you're right.
Also keep in mind that this is a very sealed community to begin with.
I'm not saying that their REACTIONS were correct, but one should be able to respect their FEELINGS.
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Unread 01-31-2003, 12:23 AM   #10
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What did the satmar people do the lubavitcher chasidim exactly, that make some people still not hold by them in any sort of way. what were the stories like.....

Is there still such big controversies nowadays, not nearly as bad as it used to be i assume?
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Unread 01-31-2003, 01:42 AM   #11
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Thank G-d this fight is history, some lubavitchers have jobs in Williamsburg, and unbelievable but true, come in and daven in the main Satmar synagogue there
I believe it's time the 'ban' on their hechsher should be lifted, since bepoel most lubavitchers eat their hechsher anyway, and it's silly for two communities so close to each other to continue a 26 year old fight
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Unread 01-31-2003, 10:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
I believe it's time the 'ban' on their hechsher should be lifted, since bepoel most lubavitchers eat their hechsher anyway, and it's silly for two communities so close to each other to continue a 26 year old fight
hmm, is that how rabbonim decide - by looking to see what people are doing, and adjusting their decisions accordingly?
perhaps sometimes this is so, but when yes? when not?

re being "close to each other" and the "length of the fight" - are these issues relevant? what do proximity or time-span have to do with anything?

I'll tell you how the ban can be lifted and how we can be cozy with one another once again - if the Satmar rabbonim let us know that criminals will be taken care of
after all, that was the reason for the ban, i.e. if rabbonim are afraid of their people, how can we rely on their hechsher?
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Unread 01-31-2003, 10:14 AM   #13
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I don't believe in carrying on 'historical fights'
There is no mitzva in being machmir in inyonim which are hefech achdus yisroel, if this fights has petered out on its own it's a sign to get on with much more important communal issues.
Different chasidic groups have sparred thru the ages, do we have to continue them? Will this bring Mashiach?
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Unread 03-14-2003, 12:58 AM   #14
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in 1952 ( i think) the Rebbe went to be menachem avel the SR. the Rebbe arrived with his entorage with R' Shmuel Levitin right behind him. the SR had only heard about the Rebbe so he presumed that R' S.L. was the Rebbe. But after the Rebbe had spoken for while, which they started in niglah and ended in nistar, the SR turned to R' S.L. and said, "Lubavicther Rebbe, I have fear of your chassidim", to this the Rebbe replied, "why out of yirah, do it out of ahava"
after the Rebbe left the SR commented that such a brain hasnt been around since the rishonim (that quote isnt quite correct, i will have to verify that).
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Unread 04-12-2003, 07:47 PM   #15
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ok, just to clarify the story i typed in earlier:
the SR and the Rebbe disscussed inyanim which ended in very deep kabbalah. On the side was sitting R' Kotler who tried to say his comments. The SR turned to him and said, "nishet far dir" 9not for you). In the heat of the disscussion with the Rebbe, the SR had to stand up and go to the kitchen and wipe his sweat off his forehead, and he commented to those around him, "such a memory is chad bedoro (one in a generation)".
All this is told by R' Ch. Halpern of London.
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Unread 09-20-2003, 08:09 PM   #16
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by notalubab
Todays Satmar Rebbe is an ayneekel of ba'al hatanyah
The Baba Sali liked the Satmar Rebbe very much and said that if you looked on his face you would know what it was like to look on the face of the Besh"t. At the same time, he supported all the Rebbe's mivtzoyim...
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Unread 09-21-2003, 09:15 AM   #17
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I just have to state for the record, that the 2 stories by Bochur 770 is fictional and nothing to do with reality.

The story about fear and ahava happened with someone else and SR.
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Unread 09-21-2003, 05:45 PM   #18
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It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to remove the Issur from their Hechsher for many reasons. 1) The Rabbonim Machshirim today are not the same as then. 2) The younger Rabbonim of Satmar really upped the standards since then. 3) They are relying on Lubavitch in far too many things in Kashrus that we can both benefit from cooperation. 4) The Satmar Rabbonim respect Lubavitcher Rabbonim far more today than ever. 5) They are begging us to remove the Issur.

The problem is, who has the authority to remove an Issur that was implemented by the Beth Din of Rav Dvorkin Z"L and was supported by the Rebbe. You need a Beth Din Shegodol Mimenu B'Chochma U'Veminyan (greater than the old one in wisdom and in numbers).

If the Badatz of C.H. removes it, Detroit won't agree. If Vaad Haklali would do it, the Meshichisten won't agree. So you need an international convention of Lubavitcher Rabbonim to really deal with this issue. I vote for change on this issue.
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Unread 09-21-2003, 06:15 PM   #19
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Most ignore it anyway (for better or for worse).
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Unread 09-21-2003, 07:05 PM   #20
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well, is it better or worse (if the issur is still in place)? halachically?
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Unread 09-21-2003, 07:39 PM   #21
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Is it an actual "issur"?
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Unread 09-22-2003, 11:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
I'll tell you how the ban can be lifted and how we can be cozy with one another once again - if the Satmar rabbonim let us know that criminals will be taken care of
after all, that was the reason for the ban, i.e. if rabbonim are afraid of their people, how can we rely on their hechsher?
If the Ban Should be lifted - It should be done only after Satmar authority (Hisachdus horabonim, etc.) come out with an official apology to the Rebbe.
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Unread 09-23-2003, 12:01 PM   #23
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Is it an actual "issur"?

I suppose it is. I doubt anyone here remembers what caused it since it was quite a few years ago. Hopefullywith time this will fade like many of the stupid fights among chassidim in the past did. I think some more Ahavos Yisroel would help.
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Unread 09-29-2003, 08:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by bochur770
ok, just to clarify the story i typed in earlier:
the SR and the Rebbe disscussed inyanim which ended in very deep kabbalah. On the side was sitting R' Kotler who tried to say his comments. The SR turned to him and said, "nishet far dir" 9not for you). In the heat of the disscussion with the Rebbe, the SR had to stand up and go to the kitchen and wipe his sweat off his forehead, and he commented to those around him, "such a memory is chad bedoro (one in a generation)".
All this is told by R' Ch. Halpern of London.
It would be very interesting to hear Rav Halperins confirmation of this story - as it sounds quite unbeliveable.

1) That the Rebbe was 'punkt' by the SR at the same time as Rav Aharon Kotler, and
2) that the SR would insult RAK so openly, and
3) that the SR would address RAK as 'du' [nisht far dir].

Sounds like a boobeh mayseh to me..

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Unread 09-29-2003, 08:41 AM   #25
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Masbir (in post # 23) already raised doubts about that story.
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