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Unread 05-16-2004, 01:12 PM   #1
Jude
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Are Jews Smarter than Average?

Many people think Jews are smarter than the general population with our way out of proportion to our numbers Nobel Prizes, doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc.

But is this true? Are Jews, on the whole, smarter than other people?

Are there any Torah sources that would verify or discount this?
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Unread 05-16-2004, 01:32 PM   #2
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Quote:
Nobel Prizes, doctors, lawyers, scientists
don't forget chess players and violinists
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Unread 05-16-2004, 01:35 PM   #3
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do you have to be smart to be a good musician?

that's another area - giftedness in non-academic areas and yes, Jews are known to be highly gifted in the arts too
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Unread 05-16-2004, 01:45 PM   #4
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you know how they say htere are seven (eight?) intelligences. If you know someone who's really talented in music you can really see how there is a science, a brilliance in it. Just bec. it's not academic doesn't take away from it's smartness.
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Unread 05-16-2004, 02:44 PM   #5
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Being good at math, music and chess usually go together, because they all use mathematical paterns, or ratios, or something like that.

The Freidiker Rebbe says in Likkutei Dibburim that the Jews were smarter throughout history, because they studies Talmud, which is the highest and most advanced form of human intellect and it sharpened their brains.

I think that the Jewish soul's unrest also makes Jews more driven.
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Unread 05-16-2004, 03:26 PM   #6
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In the list of intelligences I heard of Math and Logic (which probably includes chess) is one intelligence and Music is another.
What about girls or non-frum Jews who don't study talmud?
Jewish souls makes them more driven to learn? Every Jew should learn but there are other derachim in avodas Hashem so I would think different souls are driven to different things.
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Unread 05-16-2004, 04:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by chassidus
The Freidiker Rebbe says in Likkutei Dibburim that the Jews were smarter throughout history, because they studies Talmud, which is the highest and most advanced form of human intellect and it sharpened their brains.
here's a story that supports that point:

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...3906#post73906

this doesn't explain the numerous brainy irreligious Jews, the ones who have won the Nobel prizes etc.

or have Torah-sharpened brains been passed down genetically, even to those who haven't studied Talmud? or is it the Jewish passion for learning and achievement that makes the difference "out in the world" even when the person hasn't studied Talmud?
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Unread 05-16-2004, 04:52 PM   #8
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B"H
25, Iyar, 5764

If I recall correctly, my Rebbi (Rabbi Ami Markel) quoted Rabbi Yoel Kahnís "Mahut HaYehudi" as explaining how both within and beyond nature, the Jew surpasses everyone else.

Within nature, the Jew is the top of the four categories of existence (inanimate, plant, animal, human), being more intellectually and emotionally refined.

The Jew can also be looked at from the angle of how he or she is part not of creation, but CREATOR. Just as G-d infinately transcends all of creation, so does the Jew.
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Unread 05-17-2004, 01:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chassidic1
B"H
25, Iyar, 5764

If I recall correctly, my Rebbi (Rabbi Ami Markel) quoted Rabbi Yoel Kahnís "Mahut HaYehudi" as explaining how both within and beyond nature, the Jew surpasses everyone else.
Who got it from the Kuzari.

(There is already a thread somewhere discussing this.)
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Unread 05-17-2004, 03:41 PM   #10
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discusses it in a different context

http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...9480#post69480

Quote:
both within and beyond nature, the Jew surpasses everyone else.
and the Kuzari doesn't say that Jews are smarter than others, or is that implied?

it's not as though we say Jews are stronger than everybody else or faster, or ...
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Unread 05-17-2004, 04:27 PM   #11
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B"H
25, Iyar, 5764

Jude, that stuff (stronger/faster) is for the others, who need to run back with our coffee while it's still hot, or shlep our boxes.


P.S. Lion, thank you for the (original?) source
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Unread 05-17-2004, 06:26 PM   #12
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The Kuzari was in reply to Chassidic1's post.

No, it does not say smarter, rather that a Jew is capable of understanding things [having nevua etc.] that a gentile is not capable of understanding [or having].

(IOW it would depend on what you mean by smarter...["Chochmo yesh bagoyim tamin"....])
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Unread 05-18-2004, 12:32 AM   #13
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Of course we are - ask any anti semite.
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Unread 05-18-2004, 05:11 AM   #14
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We're also funnier.
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Unread 06-15-2004, 01:39 AM   #15
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WE have an elivated Neshama, we are born bound to our Creator, obviously we will ave a higher intelligence, no?
ps-chassidic 1, iv'e figured out who u r!!! we both go to NH Shul, lol....
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Unread 06-15-2004, 07:34 AM   #16
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What I find remarkable is a gentile will "trust" a Jewish surgeon with their life, or choose a Jewish lawyer to protect their wealth. But when it comes to religion.., they believe Jews are ignorant of who are what G-d is. Might they consider the same expertise also applies to their relationship with G-d and what their role is in the world? There seems to be a double standard here.
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Unread 06-17-2004, 02:34 PM   #17
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But they will also trust a non-Jewish surgeon.
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Unread 06-18-2004, 07:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by lambda
But they will also trust a non-Jewish surgeon.
Yes, you are correct. I guess what I'm trying to say from " a gentile perspective" is that we will trust you, [the Jewish people] above all others when it comes to our physical or material lifestyle. This is because this effects us immediately and does not require faith. Perhaps secretly we wish not to admit that G-d continues to bless his chosen people. We hang around to cash in on the material blessings. But we fail to recognise or admit these same blessings also applies to the spiritual relationship that haShem has with his chosen. Please consider that x-tians believe you have rejected the messiah and are ignorant of the Hebrew testament and the prophecies regarding salvation. We [gentiles] need to put the same trust in the Jewish religious authorties as we do the Jewish secular authorities.
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Unread 06-18-2004, 10:21 AM   #19
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Among the apparent qualities of Israel may be mentioned the intelligence and inherent character of the Jew, in the very nature of which he is distinguished from other peoples.
On the Study of Chassidus, page 7
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Unread 06-18-2004, 09:30 PM   #20
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You know, Chassidus talks about how Goyim are only connected to Tevah. So us being smart doesn't need to bde genetic or something. We are just blessed from Hashem being that we are connected lemaaleh meteva.

----Sorry Iv been out of it for a while, just a lot of things going on in my life.
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Unread 06-19-2004, 06:30 PM   #21
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i always say that jews have got to be at least more capable of anything than our gentile neighbours. you see gentile families who send their kids to Public schools (free) only have about 2-3 children, can buy the no-frills cheap brands of all foods, dont' have shabbos oryom tov expenses, can live in any cheap area they like, don't have to make big weddings for their kids, buy their son's tefillin etc., can work 7 days a week and are still struggling to put 2 cents together!

then you have the yidden - he has an average 7 children, has to live in an expensive area with his fellow yidden, has to have shabbos, yom tov, shabbos and yom tov outfits and shoes for his kids, pay private school fees, buy expensive meat, wine etc. , make weddings, buy tefillin, (maybe travel to the rebbe...) vechulu vechulu (you all know the expenses you have) AND STILL HE IS ABLE TO DO IT...

ok so we can put that on siyata dishmaya...

but maybe its teh S"D that makes yidden more capable...more smart...higher achievers...

ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu...
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Unread 06-19-2004, 10:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klotzkashe
i always say that jews have got to be at least more capable of anything than our gentile neighbours. you see gentile families who send their kids to Public schools (free) only have about 2-3 children, can buy the no-frills cheap brands of all foods, dont' have shabbos oryom tov expenses, can live in any cheap area they like, don't have to make big weddings for their kids, buy their son's tefillin etc., can work 7 days a week and are still struggling to put 2 cents together!

then you have the yidden - he has an average 7 children, has to live in an expensive area with his fellow yidden, has to have shabbos, yom tov, shabbos and yom tov outfits and shoes for his kids, pay private school fees, buy expensive meat, wine etc. , make weddings, buy tefillin, (maybe travel to the rebbe...) vechulu vechulu (you all know the expenses you have) AND STILL HE IS ABLE TO DO IT...

ok so we can put that on siyata dishmaya...

but maybe its teh S"D that makes yidden more capable...more smart...higher achievers...

ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu...
That is not because of smartness. That is because of laziness. Beside, not all goyim have that kind of life.
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Unread 06-20-2004, 10:49 AM   #23
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azoivi goyim redt:
yiddin have no brains but lots of gelt.
They cant seem to figure out where we got the gelt
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Unread 06-20-2004, 10:51 AM   #24
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and besides whos the people paying money to send their children to school
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Unread 06-20-2004, 06:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by LION
The Kuzari was in reply to Chassidic1's post.

No, it does not say smarter, rather that a Jew is capable of understanding things [having nevua etc.] that a gentile is not capable of understanding [or having].

(IOW it would depend on what you mean by smarter...["Chochmo yesh bagoyim tamin"....])
I don't know the exact context, but I'd read that "among the goyim," i.e., that there is wisdom (viz., the "288 sparks," scattered) among (the sciences/philosophies) of the goyim. This as opposed to this wisdom being innate (as it is in the Jew).
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