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Unread 01-06-2002, 01:30 PM   #1
Jude
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Kabbolas Ol/ Bittul/Moach Shalit Al Ha'Lev

People often confuse the two terms kabbolas ol and mo'ach shalit al ha'lev and use them interchangeably.

Kabbolas ol does not involve thought. You just do what you're told.

Mo'ach shalit al ha'lev is when you think something through and force your mind's conclusion to overcome your heart's desire.

Bittul is another story altogether. It's used almost exclusively in Chabad. You won't hear it used in yeshivish circles. They use anava or shiflus, not bittul. I'd like to address this in another thread: Bittul vs. Self Esteem.
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Unread 03-03-2002, 02:06 PM   #2
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In a sicha about para aduma (Lik. Sichos vol. 8), the Rebbe says the opposite (naturally!) to what the rest of the frum world says.

People typically say, para aduma is a chok, but do it with the same enthusiasm as you do the mitzvos you DO understand.

The Rebbe says, just as we do para aduma with kabbolas ol, because we don't understand it, so too we should do ALL the mitzvos with the same kabbolas ol!

But what about the reasons behind mishpatim and eidus? We ARE supposed to learn them, and for the eidus- these mitzvos ARE supposed to testify to things? How then, can they be done simply out of kabbolas ol?

and the Rebbe answers with an amazing answer:

doing mitzvos because of their reasons IS ITSELF BECAUSE of kabbolas ol!!

In other words, the fact that we do mishpatim and eidus because of their reasons is because Hashem SAID WE SHOULD!

This is an example of what I love about Chassidus. When I read something like this, it strikes me as so true, so right ...

now if only I had more kabbolas ol ... how's yours doing?
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Unread 03-05-2002, 04:14 PM   #3
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Yes, Jude, I am another story altogether. I'll have to tell it to you one day...
Although if someone would take the name Self Esteem, we could have a good time, or the name Yeshus, hmmm...

Anyway, once again you've given a post that says it all!
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Unread 03-05-2002, 04:33 PM   #4
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<<In other words, the fact that we do mishpatim and eidus because of their reasons is because Hashem SAID WE SHOULD! >>

children should be taught this, that the bottom line is we do it cause Hashem said we should, however, i think they should also be taught the reasons (keeping the above in mind). if you do everything for this (when you're still learning, and hence havent developed a real understanding of this concept), it eventually becomes boring, dull and forced. just my thought on the matter
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Unread 06-25-2002, 08:59 AM   #5
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BS"D <<now if only I had more kabbolas ol>>

Sometimes I wish I did too... I wish I wished that more often, though...

Anyway here's a quote about this:

...Just as the Torah as a whole was received through the announcement of we will do before we will listen (i.e. understand), the same holds true for each part of our holy Torah. I.e. one should not start from questions, but first accept these instructions, for they have been tried and tested, and then, in not too long, comprehension will come too.

Igros Kodesh vol. 13 p. 4-5
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Unread 06-25-2002, 10:21 AM   #6
Jude
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Somebody suggested that another difference between kabbolas ol and mo'ach shalit al ha'lev is that kabbolas ol has to do with unthinkingly following what someone ELSE tells you to do, while mo'ach shalit al ha'lev is within yourSELF.
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Unread 06-25-2002, 02:11 PM   #7
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yes, I also love that sicha about understanding because of kabolas ol. There is a ho'ore in a maamer D"H Ketz som lachoshech where the rebbe says that if a person really believes with utter conviction, then he is not afraid to explore the issue with saichel.
Jude, I think that Kabolas ol is the klal, and moach shalit is an expression of one form of kabolas ol, as well as many other forms that kabolas ol would take.
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Unread 06-01-2003, 06:52 PM   #8
Yankel Nosson
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Re: Kabbolas Ol/ Bittul/Moach Shalit Al Ha'Lev

Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
Mo'ach shalit al ha'lev is when you think something through and force your mind's conclusion to overcome your heart's desire.
This is only half of the meaning.

The implications of Mo'ach shalit al ha'lev (sorry, I can't point to the place in Tanya where it is discussed) is that one's lev (=emotions) are the offspring of the mochin, and that one's intellectual knowledge gives birth to the emotions. Therefore, by increasing one's knowledge, one can generate different emotions (and avoid the need to "overcome" them).

As an example, b'gashmiyus: You're at a simcha and the caterer brings out a delicious looking cake, with chocolate, cherries, pareve whipped cream, mmmmmm!! You naturally have a desire to enjoy the cake. You tell your wife that you are going to get a piece, would she like one also. Your wife leans over and whispers to you that she saw into the kitchen while they were preparing the cake, and that batter had spilled on the floor and the workers simply scooped it up and baked the cake anyway. You are disgusted. Because with the new knowledge your intellect possesses, you lose all interest in the cake. Because the emotions are born from the mochin, and by changing the mochin (knowledge), one will generate different emotions.
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Unread 06-01-2003, 11:14 PM   #9
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Excellent analogy!

There is a Hayom Yom that describes moach shalit al haleiv in this way. (I mean your abstract explanation, not the cake )

Kabalas ol, means that you dedicate yourself to a person completely. If this person asks you to do him a favor you say, "Sure, what is it?" and not "Well, what kind of favor?" And an even truer example is a soldier, who commits to do whatever he is commanded, even before he hears the command. This is the idea of saying, "I will do" before "I will hear," as the Jews did with the Torah.
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Unread 06-01-2003, 11:58 PM   #10
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Yankel, I would eat that cake. Why waste a good mezonos, even if it was tainted. I would think that things cant always be perfect, and perhaps my "borei minay mezonos" said with deep kavana, will break through all that I know about this tainted batter, and elevate its shmootz to a higher level. And remember, there is always pepto bismol.
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Unread 06-02-2003, 05:22 AM   #11
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Baruch Hashem, Brook Ave, that not every Yid is an istanis like me!
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Unread 11-16-2003, 06:31 PM   #12
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Before 5710 the Rebbes room didnt look malchus'dik (royal). After the Rebbe accepted the Chabad leadership, they wanted to change the room to reflect his new role, and so they removed some items from the room and the Rebbe didnt say a word. Among the things they removed was an old clock which had been on the Rebbes desk since he arrived in New York until this day. When they removed this clock and replaced it with a new and much nicer clock, at first the Rebbe didnt say anything, but then he asked why they had switched clocks.

When they answered that it had to look malchusdik, the Rebbe said: What is kabbolas ol? Is it only when you "tear someone elses nose off"? [i.e. one-upmanship] "Tearing off a nose" may be a great thing When you do something different than what is wanted, this is a lack in kabbolas ol. And the Rebbe said they should put back the old clock.
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Unread 11-17-2003, 09:26 AM   #13
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Question: Was "Gan Eden HaElyon" the FR's office before 5710? Or was there another office somewhere else? I'm asking because of the clock story.

When the Rebbe accepted the nesius, did he move into the FR's old office?
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Unread 11-17-2003, 11:21 AM   #14
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No, it was The Rebbe's Office before.
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Unread 12-05-2003, 12:04 PM   #15
Jude
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as told by R' Avrohom Maiyor:

The son of R Moshe Binyamin Kaplan told me about a certain professor (Doctor), a big expert, who was one of those who examined the Rebbe at that time (Shemini Atzeres 5738). I dont want to say his name. We all know Dr. Weiss. He was so amazed by the Rebbe that he became a Chassid, but this professor that Im telling you about, was a completely different type. A very cold sort, and hard, to the point that they say about him that even if he became a baal teshuva he wouldnt disclose it because of the shame involved.

Anyway, this professor had absolute humility before the Rebbe. When he was asked, What did you find in the Rebbe? he said, When I came to the Rebbe, I saw that the heart and body were in serious shape, really gone. In all my cases, I know that the heart is the organ in charge, and someone with a heart in that condition, like the Rebbes, cannot work at all. Yet with the Rebbe I saw, for the first time in my life, a person whose mind rules absolutely and completely!

This is what the professor said. He wasnt talking Chassidus. He didnt even know of the concept of moach shalit al halev (the mind rules the heart). He spoke in dry, medical terms. The big expert was astounded, and expressed his amazement about a medical condition, that in all the cases he had seen, he had never encountered anything like it. A case where the heart and body were in the condition they were in and only the head and brain ruled the body absolutely, in a way that amazed him and that he had never previously encountered.
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Unread 01-26-2004, 06:53 PM   #16
Jude
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there's an interesting explanation about kabbolas ol in Likutei Sichos, vol. 21, p. 122

some highlights:

lechem oni vs. matza ashira

lechem oni=the avoda of kabolas ol (no "taste" and "geshmak")

matza ashira=the avoda based on taam v'daas (reason, intellectual understanding)

lechem oni= avoda of iskafia
matza ashira= avoda of is'hafcha

an interesting point - bittul and kabbolas ol don't need to be done (only) in a forced manner
the bittul should be in such a way that man's intellect and emotions AGREE to the bittul and kabbolas ol, so that the avoda of kabolas ol is with taam and taanug!
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Unread 05-12-2005, 06:46 PM   #17
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Unhappy

Guys, I would really love to understand this thread. Please speak in the terms of an am ha'aretz.
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