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Unread 04-11-2010, 07:29 AM   #1
mosheh5769
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How did the Rebbe stop smoking?

What prompted the Rebbe to stop smoking?

I heard two versions of this story:

One version says that when the Friediker Rebbe was sick, a physician turned to the Rebbe to explain him the harmful effects of smoking. The same day, someone offered the Rebbe a cigarette, and he replied, "I stopped smoking."

Another version says that when the Friediker Rebbe was sick and was told about the harmfulness of smoking, he published a letter to the Bachurim in which he explains to the Bachurim that it is better not to smoke (but he even continued to smoke until his death). It was in reading this letter that the Rebbe made the decision to stop smoking.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 08:21 AM   #2
ChabadRevisited
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How do you know that the Rebbe ever smoked to begin with?
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Unread 04-11-2010, 08:42 AM   #3
Torah613
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... Or that he stopped?
The version I alwas heard (which has as much source as any other of the above ones...), was that when the effects of smoking was consdered bad for the FR's health, therefore prompting a ban of smoking in the vicinity of the FR, causing the Rebbe to stop smoking.

But, as I said, I have no credible source for any of this.

Who says the FR continued smoking? That is also news to me.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 09:01 AM   #4
mosheh5769
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The version I alwas heard...was that when the effects of smoking was consdered bad for the FR's health, therefore prompting a ban of smoking in the vicinity of the FR, causing the Rebbe to stop smoking.
So it is "almost" a mixture of both versions.

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Who says the FR continued smoking? That is also news to me.
As you said, it has as much source as any other of the above ones...This is what I heard, so I too have no credible source to bring.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 09:12 AM   #5
mosheh5769
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How do you know that the Rebbe ever smoked to begin with?
I don't. This is what I heard past Shabbes, as I said I have no source, so don't take it as a "Psak". I just heard that the Rebbe smoke untill the deterioration of the FR's health. That person also told me that one of Rebbeim (I don't know if it was the Rebbe or one of the previous Rebbeim) had received his first cigarette at his Bar Mitzvah.

Perhaps that's the idea of saying that such Tzadikim have been smoking in the past that is shocking. I was equally surprised. But why is it impossible that the Rebbe was able to put a cigarette in his mouth?...But I repeat, I have no proof, no source, I reported what I heard.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 09:16 AM   #6
Torah613
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It does not bother me in the least if the Rebbe smoked, and it is definitely not at all shocking (in those days, many (most?) smoked, and not only the males...). The Rashab and the FR definitely did.
But stories - whether shocking or not - need sources. That is all.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 09:40 AM   #7
mosheh5769
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But stories - whether shocking or not - need sources. That is all.
I agree 100%, and that's why I asked about that story, to see if someone had something I haven't : a source.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 11:17 AM   #8
chossidnistar
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smoking ,in those olden times was considered just like smelling besamim

ther were not revealed the harmful health effects
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Unread 04-11-2010, 11:21 AM   #9
Torah613
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One more point: Who cares? What difference does it make?
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Unread 04-11-2010, 11:28 AM   #10
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differnce?
well, I know many many bochrim and shluchim that smoke based on that "the Rebbe used to smoke"
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Unread 04-11-2010, 12:21 PM   #11
mosheh5769
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ther were not revealed the harmful health effects
Interresting what you said because the one who told that story about the Rebbe had smoked in the past and ceased to following the health problems of the Friediker Rebbe, added the same thing (in other words) : they were not revealed the harmful health effects.

So, to this words, someone in the Shul (all this happened last Shabbes) asked : how is it possible that such Tzadikim couldn't know the harmful health effects of smocking?

I must say that there is no problem for me because I don't see what is embarrassing in saying that there are certain things that Tzadikim don't know or are not aware of. So, don't see a personal matter in that question. But I bring it in the issue just to broaden the debate.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 12:24 PM   #12
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differnce?
well, I know many many bochrim and shluchim that smoke based on that "the Rebbe used to smoke"
So, I see that he who told us this past Shabbes that the Rebbe was smoking was not alone in being informed, Therefore, we can almost be assured that there is a basis on saying that the Rebbe smoke since many rely on that to justify smoking, but we still don't have any source (but I think it is impossible to find one, especially that Lubavitch is known for telling the same story in different versions).
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Unread 04-11-2010, 12:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosheh5769 View Post
Interresting what you said because the one who told that story about the Rebbe had smoked in the past and ceased to following the health problems of the Friediker Rebbe, added the same thing (in other words) : they were not revealed the harmful health effects.

So, to this words, someone in the Shul (all this happened last Shabbes) asked : how is it possible that such Tzadikim couldn't know the harmful health effects of smocking?

I must say that there is no problem for me because I don't see what is embarrassing in saying that there are certain things that Tzadikim don't know or are not aware of. So, don't see a personal matter in that question. But I bring it in the issue just to broaden the debate.
:"they were not revealed in the world the harmul health effects", could maen that they were not harmful in the beginning and then they became harmful years later
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Unread 04-11-2010, 12:39 PM   #14
mosheh5769
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:"they were not revealed in the world the harmul health effects", could maen that they were not harmful in the beginning and then they became harmful years later
The doctor has refuted this argument (and it turns out it was I who proposed this argument). He explained that cigarettes of the past were no less dangerous than those of our days. It is in reality, the opposite. Many extremely harmful substances in cigarettes of the past are no longer present in the nowadays cigarettes. (But the most worrisome substance is nicotine, which creates the feeling of pleasure and addiction.) Therefore, this argument can not be taken into account. I think we must resolve to say that there were / are things unknown to Tzadikim.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 12:58 PM   #15
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We can always fall back on the argument.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 05:22 PM   #16
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exactely
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Unread 04-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #17
mosheh5769
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We can always fall back on the argument.
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Unread 04-11-2010, 08:21 PM   #18
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We can always fall back on the argument.
It doesn't look like anyone on the thread is really taking that argument seriously. But this particular question, whether smoking was harmful 100 years ago, I believe can be explored with medical records. There is a wealth of data on incidences of Y"M and lung conditions, and I believe autopsies have also revealed black lungs from older corpses.

There is also another interesting comment about this. Most versions have the Rebbe, FR, etc. quitting upon being told by a doctor (or the FR, in the Rebbe's case) that smoking was harmful. That means the research was out there for a while before the FR was told. That means that harm was occuring a few years before that in order for there to be data to research. I think you'd have to say the FR would have been smoking for at least 5 years (and probably considerably longer) before it got to him that all this time there were people smoking, getting sick, and being studied by doctors as a result.

I believe there is a public statement from the Rebbe about chassidim smoking. Something like, under 21 is an outright ban and over 21 the Rebbe asks that people quit as a personal favor. Does anyone have a source for that?
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Unread 04-11-2010, 10:03 PM   #19
Torah613
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That is the letter of the FR referenced before.
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Unread 04-12-2010, 01:37 PM   #20
mosheh5769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
There is also another interesting comment about this. Most versions have the Rebbe, FR, etc. quitting upon being told by a doctor (or the FR, in the Rebbe's case) that smoking was harmful. That means the research was out there for a while before the FR was told. That means that harm was occuring a few years before that in order for there to be data to research. I think you'd have to say the FR would have been smoking for at least 5 years (and probably considerably longer) before it got to him that all this time there were people smoking, getting sick, and being studied by doctors as a result.
A very good remark.
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Unread 12-16-2010, 01:39 PM   #21
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In an interesting story told in
Migdal Oz, the Chassidim R Shmuel Michel Treinen and R Simcha Gorodetzky visited the Rogatchover Gaon. During the visit, which took place on Shavuos, R Shmuel Michel took out a cigarette and it was obvious that he wanted to smoke. The Rogatchover called for his wife to bring fire, and when there was no response he wanted to get up himself to bring fire for his guest. However, R Shmuel Michel stopped him and said he had no intentions of smoking and had only wanted to know the gaons opinion about smoking on Yom Tov.

The Rogatchover said he had never smoked and so he couldnt offer an opinion on the matter, since it was possible that for one habituated to
smoking it could be considered
ltzorech ochel nefesh. When R Shmuel Michel said that the Rebbe Rashab & Rebbe Rayatz both smoked on Yom Tov the gaon said,
You compare yourself to the Rebbe?! He is a lofty tzaddik and their smoking is another inyan altogether!

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Unread 12-16-2010, 04:44 PM   #22
mosheh5769
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I had never seen that picture of the Rashab before (perhaps because of the cigarette he holds in his hand, the picture is not widespread).

Anyway, I don't know why, but whenever I see a smoking Chasidic Rebbe in a video, I'm almost shocked (perhaps because of the fact of our\my idealization of what a Rebbe i sensed to be)
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Unread 12-16-2010, 04:57 PM   #23
Eltere Chossid
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Quote:
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I had never seen that picture of the Rashab before)
The picture is of the Frierdiker Rebbe, not the Rebbe Rashab.

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(perhaps because of the cigarette he holds in his hand, the picture is not widespread)
In fact, there was a artist who saw a beautiful picture of the Frierdiker Rebbe she wanted to duplicate, but she took out the cigarrete.
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Unread 12-16-2010, 08:28 PM   #24
mosheh5769
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Quote:
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The picture is of the Frierdiker Rebbe, not the Rebbe Rashab.
Of course...

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In fact, there was a artist who saw a beautiful picture of the Frierdiker Rebbe she wanted to duplicate, but she took out the cigarrete.
In fact, I did see that picture somewhere but it was just his head that was shown not the rest, so we can't see the Rebbe with his cigarette.
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Unread 12-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #25
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and maybe the cigarette was added by someone in this pic

you can't tell anything based on pics
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