Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Teenagers

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 02-23-2003, 11:47 PM   #26
chassidus
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 732
Quote:
So parents must play a dual role: they must both befriend their children, so they can influence them in a pleasant manner, but be on the lookout for signs of misbehaviour and be ready to punish if necessary.
Be kind and friendly, yes; befriend, not necessarily.

A parent should try to help and steer their child in the right path, in both big and little things. If this is done sincerely--with the child's good in mind--and without anger--as is the rule for any rebuke--it will have a positive effect. Also, any rebuke should not stem from the rebuker's superiority or authority, rather, the idea itself should be explained, so that it is self-understood that it is wrong. Then, the child's conscious will do the trick. The type of explanation given must change with age, progressing from a kabalos ol answer to more sophisticated explanations, but the principle remains the same.
chassidus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2003, 10:08 AM   #27
glad2bme
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 82
i agree that parents should not befriend the child after all every teenager deep down wants there parents to act like parents, but there is a big diffrence between sneaking and looking for signs, if ur child comes home one day with red eyes, disheveled hair and cant focus, u better look out for something (it might just be there tired...or not) but looking through there stuff...just to make sure there ok...is not right!
__________________
Smile its the curve that sets u straight=)
glad2bme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2003, 02:59 PM   #28
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
from a teenagers point of view once again,

i am in my older teens and lately i have begun to have major doubts about judaism. the older i become the bigger they become! everything seems so untrue! sometimes i feel completely brainwashed (yeah, i know wrong thread but youll see in a sec why this should be in this thread) and i dont want to do anything! so what stops me? the thing that stops me is what will my parents and teachers and my community think of me? if i later decide this is the real thing ill never be accepted back in to the real lubuvitch life bc i once explored sthing else! so is it worse to live a life of falsehood for your family and everyone else or to cause your family and friends lots of "pain" which in the end will make your life miserable bc everything you do will be a major fight. now the truth is my parents are very open ppl but bc ive always been so perfect in their eyes they would start with me about everything while with my sibling who has always been very 'open minded' they allow him to do things id never do!! hope u understand!
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-24-2003, 10:42 PM   #29
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D I think that deep down, and maybe not so deep down, you do believe, you do know what's right and wrong, and that this is a passing stage. This is what prevents you from acting out your desires. Also, in a way you are lucky that you are concerned "what people will say," for it saves you from much damage.

But to help overcome these challenges, it is crucial to find positive role models and avoid secular influences. Good luck!
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-25-2003, 04:03 AM   #30
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
no offence or anything but its when i hear answers like that that i lose interest. no depth is being mentioned, no reasons why judaism is special, its become like a game in every aspect.
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-26-2003, 01:14 PM   #31
glad2bme
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 82
quest i feel for u...im a teen on her way out-to adulthood and i went through many stages in my life some that my parents knew of and some that they didnt...the feeling of not knowing is the worse...i know this because ive been there- do u like to read? if u do try reading inspirational books-not neccisarily seforim but things like rebbetzin chana's memoirs they help me stay focused...and hey do things cuz u believe in them if u dont beleive in them and ur doing them for ur parents then find reasons for them ask questions ask ask ask its the best way to learn...hey judiasm has been around for the longest of all religions its lasted through everyhting-theres gotta be something to it! ask ask questions get answers and good luck
__________________
Smile its the curve that sets u straight=)
glad2bme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-26-2003, 03:28 PM   #32
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
Question

thanks- good 2 know someone empathises! only problem with asking is people feel threatened by your questions and make disgusting remarks in order to shut u up eg: i asked my teacher a question and she told me thats the stupidist question she ever heard!! and i was hurt bc it was a real question to me and like i discussed it with my parents bc it wasnt even a question anti anything it was just a real question and it threatened her so she screamed at me! im also on my way into adulthood as u put it and its scary bc i still dont have answers and am just not finding them through the frum societies.
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-26-2003, 03:57 PM   #33
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
wow, how surprising that the teacher would answer that way! Here's a possibility - maybe she felt she had to say that in front of the class so that others wouldn't be bothered by your question
Just wondering - did you ask the teacher privately or publicly? It might be an idea to ask certain things one-on-one ... The teacher won't feel put on the spot in front of the whole class.
There are lots of good books and good people out there who are willing and able to answer questions. Have you tried askmoses?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-26-2003, 06:44 PM   #34
glad2bme
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 82
i love askmoses i go all the time for all sorts of questions, but dont give up keep asking even if teachers are sometimes...ya we dont gotta say it!
__________________
Smile its the curve that sets u straight=)
glad2bme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-27-2003, 12:32 AM   #35
chassidus
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 732
General rule:

When people don't understand their beliefs in a settled way, and you challenge these beliefs, they will feel threatened. They will become defensive, irate, and irrational. This is regardless of whether these beliefs are true or not.

In order for a person to challenge their beliefs intellectually, they have to understand it well enough that they are not scared to lose them, or have understood enough other things to gain confidence that a good explanation exists.

This is part of human nature.
__________________
"The Baal Shem Tov revealed a new dimension of Torah based on Ahavas Yisrael."
chassidus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-27-2003, 02:38 PM   #36
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
ask moses is cool. i do go there sometimes but sometimes whenu doing sthing or learning something these things come up and you need to ask then and there bc they fit into the conversation but when ppl are answering you that your questuions are stupid(which wouldnt have been a question that the class wouldve started to question it just was a question that it seems there is no answer to and she couldnt say she doesnt know bc that would be too hard on her ego), then u start to wonder if there really are answers to your questions!!!!
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-27-2003, 04:02 PM   #37
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
Why don't you ask your questions on here?
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 02-27-2003, 10:30 PM   #38
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D Yeah - that way, everyone benefits!
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-03-2003, 11:28 AM   #39
glad2bme
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 82
food for thought i guess it would be called...do teaches sometimes have the same questions as students?! sometimes they do i think and when a question comes up that they need an answer to as well it kinda freaks them out...
__________________
Smile its the curve that sets u straight=)
glad2bme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 03:21 PM   #40
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D One reason to tell the parents is that even if they can't do anything (which may well not be the case), they can still daven for their children, and tefillah is surely effective.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 04:08 PM   #41
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
i just went to a shiur and basically what i was thinking throughout the shiur and what i truly believe is this... (this is a bit off the issue being discussed but it is under the topic nachas vs honesty) basically i think if you look within the lubavitch community(i cant talk for other communities because im not within other communities but that isnt the issue) if you look within the highschools or ppl finished school and even older than that you will find that a large number of people are frum not beacause they want to be, not because they find meaning in being frum, they probably see it is a burden but they are frum bc their parents are frum and they have been braught up frum and it is very hard to get out of that environment!! and im not talking about stages of rebelion like going to a movie- thats easy, im talking about real frumkeid like kosher and shabbaos!!!i think many ppl have no passion for it because they are not taught the greatness and value of it and they are not taught that it is a priveledge- they may be told it but they are definatly not braught to believe it! and if they are being frum for their parents and their communities and not for themselves is that better than not being frum and at least believing what u doin?
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 04:58 PM   #42
zaque36
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 767
<<<<<and if they are being frum for their parents and their communities and not for themselves is that better than not being frum and at least believing what u doin?>>>>>>

what do YOU think?

I personally feel somewhat like the scenarios u bring.
__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
zaque36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 06:47 PM   #43
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
1) what do you mean by not being frum and believing in that?

2) If G-d commands us to do certain things and people do them for the wrong reasons, why do you think it's better not to do them? Did G-d ever say: Do My commandments only if you have perfect intentions?! Did G-d make His commandments conditional on your attitude towards them?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 06:51 PM   #44
zaque36
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 767
Quote:
1) what do you mean by not being frum and believing in that?
Believing that the lifestyle that u chose for urself (not a religious one) is the right one, makes sense to you and you are satisfied with it. (I don't know if u were directing this q' to quest or not...)
__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
zaque36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 07:02 PM   #45
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
here's an assignment for whoever chooses to accept it: question some people who left religious observance and ask them what they feel about their choice: do they feel that their chosen lifestyle is the Truth? is that why they chose it? are they satisifed with it? how do they or will they raise their children (if they have any and if they are Jewish).

it would be particularly interesting to hear the answers to these questions from young adults
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-25-2003, 07:16 PM   #46
zaque36
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 767
<<<<question some people who left religious observance and ask them what they feel about their choice>>>>>

k, im thinking of one person in particular, that I just spoke to.

<<<do they feel that their chosen lifestyle is the Truth?>>>

he feels that everyone has the right and responsibility to choose the lifestyle that makes the most sense. He respects people who are frum but doesn't think that that is the way for everyone.

<<<<is that why they chose it?>>>>

he chose to be non-religious because he doesn't (fully) believe there is a g-d, and his questions as a child/teen were not answered. He does not feel satisfied to lead his life according to something he does not understand. because his parents do it like that, is no reason for him to be the same.

<<<<are they satisifed with it?>>>>

When i asked this friend if he was really happy with his life now, he said he was. i kept asking him and then he said that he wasn't totally happy with life, but then again, who is?, he asked me. He's more satisfied now then he was before though. he thinks judaism is just a copout-an excuse, when someone dies-oh yeah, don't worry, e/t hashem does is for the best...let's be happy about it etc etc.

<<<<how do they or will they raise their children >>>>>

um, hes not planning on having any actually.


(p.s. this is totally off topic-maybe move this to another thread)
__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.
zaque36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2003, 10:43 AM   #47
glad2bme
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 82
sounds like a sour apple to me
there are plenty of ppl out there whove been there done that and are happier ppl
__________________
Smile its the curve that sets u straight=)
glad2bme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2003, 11:32 AM   #48
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
re: Post #46

Couple of insights, from a ba'al tshuva who's seen life on both sides (and isn't a sour apple! ):

1) The bottom line isn't simply "happiness". Ignorance is bliss, and sometimes the pursuit of happiness is really running away from responsibility.


2) Judaism as a cop-out or excuse is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say! Every Yid that went to prison for spreading Yiddishkeit testifies that such an assertion is preposterous. To be honest, a secular lifestyle is what suits a person looking for a cop-out or excuse, because it allows him/her to say "well, I have doubts about G-d," and leave it at that. It allows him/her to take the easy way in every scenario. The proof? What's harder: to become a ba'al tshuva or to walk away from Torah v'Mitzvos (ch'v'sh)? The path up is always harder than the path down. I feel for this guy's struggles, but instead of wrestling with them, he gave up. Pity.

3) Ask this fellow what he would be willing to give up for his "secular" lifestyle. Would he be willing to fight for it? To die for it? If, G-d forbid, he found himself under a Muslim administration that demanded that every citizen accept Islam or die, would he feel strongly enough to give up his life? Surely, the answer is no. Ask 100 of his friends, and you'll get the same answer. For Jews, our history speaks for itself; we don't even need to pull up examples of mesiras nefesh or al-kiddush-haShem because we all know how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of Yidden were able to cling to Torah even in the face of death, hy"d.

In other words, this fellow's life is built around an empty negativity: that no one should tell him what to do, that he shouldn't be a "hypocrite", etc. His reasoning sound fine, but he has, literally, nothing to live for, (r"l).

And one other point: there are a number of nice books that have been published: the personal stories of non-Jewish "clergymen" who, as they studied their religious teachings, began to see the inconsistencies. Eventually the wound up converting to Judaism, because they saw that it was the real Emes. In other words, the more they learned, the more they saw holes in their religions, and they wound up in Torah because it didn't have such gaps.

With Jews it's the opposite--the more a Jew learns, and internalizes, the more clear things become and the more his emunah and bitachon grow. If a Jew feels he has doubts about something, he should davka study that inyan that is troubling him. Sometimes, simply reading/hearing the words of a tzaddik as he speaks with utter confidence and clarity about the subject will dispel the doubts, even if the understanding is not forthcoming.

The best thing to say is simply: Don't give up!
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 03-26-2003, 01:21 PM   #49
quest
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 185
so jade, what u are saying is that its better to do it no matter what your intentions are. but take for example someone who say experiences a tragedy in their family and are turned off god and believe a truly compassionate god wouldnt do sthing like that and therefore thjis isnt the truth and it is an intellectual decision. should they carry on doing what they dont belive in bc they honestly dont believe it as being true????
your assignment would be a truly interesting one but i dont believe that those ppl would be readily wanting to answer your questions!

(((<<<<<and if they are being frum for their parents and their communities and not for themselves is that better than not being frum and at least believing what u doin?>>>>>>

what do YOU think?
I personally feel somewhat like the scenarios u bring.))))

i must say zaque36 that i also feel somewhat part of that situation.
quest is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-29-2003, 07:44 PM   #50
iamachassid
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,395
Quote:
Originally posted by glad2bme
food for thought i guess it would be called...do teaches sometimes have the same questions as students?! sometimes they do i think and when a question comes up that they need an answer to as well it kinda freaks them out...
I think the same people who had questions while they were growing up, those deep and curious enough to question, will still have and ask questions once they're grown up and moved to the other side of the teachers desk. As I get older I listen to my siblings complain about teachers and I'm usually amused because their mean, boring, crazy, etc. teacher is someone I'm friends with. They may be older but they're still people. I think the same would apply to any adult in any profession except teachers are in the position to ask and answer questions.
iamachassid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honesty and "Half Truths" ChachChach General 23 03-28-2004 08:38 AM
honesty amongst lubavitch beinghonest Hashkafah 16 11-14-2003 02:37 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com