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Unread 09-07-2006, 01:06 PM   #51
unvme4iamaqt
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I don't think there is anything wrong with this whole thing. If their parents let, then it is none of another parent's business. Parents are always looking to see what is wrong with another child, and try to hide their child's faults and wrong doings. Talking from experiance, I have been to many shabbatons and of course you want to look your best. Of course you want to show off all your new clothes. I don't see the problem with shopping for their shabbaton! If that child is going to feel self confident in a new outfit and manicure, then by all means help that child feel good about themself. Unfortunetly people judge others by thier clothes, and if it will make a girl feel comfortable wearing a new outfit then it is totally fine!
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Unread 05-01-2008, 07:17 PM   #52
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If that child is going to feel self confident in a new outfit and manicure, then by all means help that child feel good about themself. Unfortunetly people judge others by thier clothes, and if it will make a girl feel comfortable wearing a new outfit then it is totally fine!
maybe parents shouldn't be condoning and even encouraging self esteem thru clothes. that might be part of this whole issue here. if parents don't have their values straight how are they supposed to pass values on to their kids?
also, on the whole "inspire girls and they will love yiddishkeit" topic: we once had a speaker talk to my high school abt tznius. she was very, very entertaining (adn very blunt abt what she tht of the tznius situtation with grls nowadays.) everyone loved it! after the speech e/o even the grls who don't dress tzniusdik adn have boyfrnds adn e/t were raving abt the speech and saying that the school should brng in these inspirational speakers more often b/c it was so inspiring and school only teaches boring stuff, highschoolers need more inspiration, etc.
i can't say for sure, but from the looks of it not one girl changed her tznius in any way. not one grl took that inspiration and used it in her life. teens like to blame their issues on this and that, but it's just pointless. at a certain point you have to look at yourself and just be honest about your issues and recognize that change requires you to work hard!!! inspiration isn't going to change your life in any way if you do nothing abt it!
also, i once heard someon use this example to explain judging ppl by their clothes, earrings, tattoes, etc. he said would you trust s/o with tattoes and torn jeans and noserings to perform surgery on you? no, you obviously wouldn't. clothes happen to reflect what's inside of the person, so ppl use clothes to figure out ppl. someone with tattoes and body piercings all over is most probabaly not the highest class, smartest, most educated person out there.
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Unread 05-02-2008, 01:53 AM   #53
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Me Again, you seem to be quite bright, and have a good understanding of many things...
About the inspirational speech you heard etc. You are very right that people blame their issues on anything but themselves. But you need to also realize, that there could have been girls who were inspired and did something about it, and you don't even know. How do you know that a particular girl didn't stop yelling accross the street, because she felt it wasn't tznius?
Maybe someone else stopped wearing red? Maybe another girl stopped wearing shirts with words on the front, or no more slits?
Do you know each and every girls wardrobe?
Furthermore, would they be able to all suddenly have a whole new look?
People take small hachlatos, and they're personal. You might not see it at all, but they feel it, and constantly.
I think that motivational speeches are great, the only thing is, is that they need to be reinforced and repeated.
If you're not constantly inspired while in highschool, then you start slowing down, or c''v down-sliding.
If these inspirational speeches kept going, at least once a month, by the end of the year, you would see a totally different school.
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Unread 05-14-2008, 02:44 AM   #54
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This is such a ridiculous thread. I can't understand why you would post such a question, there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a new outfit for a shabbaton! I know that when I go to camp I buy a whole new wardrobe, and why shouldnt I? why shouldnt I look and feel my best? and where does this whole issue of tznius just come in, it seems to me that every thread needs to bring up this issue of tznius, anyway my opinion is that parents dont really have a right to tell the daughter what to wear unless it is something like pants or a sleeveless top, I am 15 years old and when my mother yells at me for going out in thongs (flip flops) I just think how stupid it is, why cant I show my legs and my feet and why is this her business? By the time you get to my age it should be the individuals choice on how he/she dresses.
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Unread 05-14-2008, 03:57 AM   #55
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This is such a ridiculous thread. ....
I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt [....] speak to a teacher or rebbetzin whom you respect about tznius or ask proper questions on this board as there is at least one person here (it certainly is NOT me) who I think can explain things in a way that will inspire you and help you appreciate tznius.
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Unread 05-14-2008, 08:20 AM   #56
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This is such a ridiculous thread....
Torah disagrees. [...]
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Unread 05-14-2008, 08:53 PM   #57
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********, there are some things about Tznius that are Halacha, and some that are "sensitivities". It is crucial to know the difference.
If a girl doesn't wear shirts with words accross the front, it's a sensitivity.
If a girl doesn't wear flipflops, it's because she's keeping Halacha.

Your mother perhaps should not yell at you for flipflop wearing, but you are her daughter. Not only does she have the responsibility to ensure your well being physically and spiritually, but she also loves you.
Because she loves you, she wants you to understand that even your feet are precious. Every part of you is a special, holy, and beautiful limb!
Halacha wants you to cover it-even for your own good.
Your mother wants you to cover it, because quite simply, she cares about you.
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Unread 06-17-2008, 04:06 PM   #58
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I wish my mother had been like that when I was your age...
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