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Unread 06-30-2010, 09:02 AM   #26
chossidnistar
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A big part of failure that bochurim attribute to the system is as a result of the bochurim themselves not interested in learning or on working on themselves
brainwashed tape
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Unread 06-30-2010, 12:57 PM   #27
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brainwashed tape
no, just experience. I have seen what it takes for bochurim to succeed, and I'm not saying that the system is perfect or close to it, it's just that for some reason there is no viable alternative
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Unread 01-17-2011, 12:03 PM   #28
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Sorry - you probably cannot access it. Here is a post of mine there (and yes, I was attacked there (a bit) for it). One can quibble on details, but the general thrust - I think - is accurate, and in the passage of time, and in the context of your questions, I have much more to add. [Also, I will don't want to reopen the quibbles on this post. But I think it is clear in what direction I am going there].
Concerning your other questions: I think it is cause for alarm, and it will not pass (as things are now). There is NO someone to change anything.
The best hope for your kids, is lots of תהילים and hard work on your part.
T613: Some Misnagdishe Yeshivos are doing much better when it comes to learning although they obviously don't learn lishmoh. Would you recommed to look into Misnagdishe Yeshivos instead of Lubavitcher Yeshivos for our kids?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 12:07 PM   #29
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no, just experience. I have seen what it takes for bochurim to succeed, and I'm not saying that the system is perfect or close to it, it's just that for some reason there is no viable alternative
I hate to say this: Today's frum bochrim are the most unmotivated people I've ever seen. In my humble opinion, since they don't get Chayus from learning Kodesh and don't have access to getting Chayus from secular matters, they become real bums.

Sorry. Don't yell at me.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 12:18 PM   #30
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I hate to say this: Today's frum bochrim are the most unmotivated people I've ever seen. In my humble opinion, since they don't get Chayus from learning Kodesh and don't have access to getting Chayus from secular matters, they become real bums.

Sorry. Don't yell at me.
What do you think is the cause?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 07:37 PM   #31
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T613: Some Misnagdishe Yeshivos are doing much better when it comes to learning although they obviously don't learn lishmoh.
I just love this sentence. Who does learn "lishmo"? More importantly: Who cares?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 09:25 PM   #32
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What do you think is the cause?
Well, you're asking that question to a real simple guy...

Why don't you ask T613?
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Unread 01-17-2011, 11:09 PM   #33
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I hate to say this: Today's frum bochrim are the most unmotivated people I've ever seen. In my humble opinion, since they don't get Chayus from learning Kodesh and don't have access to getting Chayus from secular matters, they become real bums.

Sorry. Don't yell at me.
I take exception to the frequent insults hurled at "todays frum bochurim" or "high school girls today" that I see on this forum. There are plenty of examples of exceptional young men and women learning in the Chabad school system (not to mention Beis Yaakov and others). I find that visitors to Chabad houses are consistently impressed with the children of shluchim as well as the "shliach bochurim" and shluchos that help at camps and other activities.

I have met some very unmotivated bochurim, and I have seen some very unmotivated 40 year olds as well - its not a modern innovation. But to paint this generation with one brush is simply ludicrous.
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Unread 01-17-2011, 11:42 PM   #34
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Well, you're asking that question to a real simple guy...

Why don't you ask T613?
I asked you ,b/c you have this idea ferom frum LUB bochrim as you had from auto accidents,
Maybe you have an idea of the cause and a solution
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Unread 01-18-2011, 08:54 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu View Post
I take exception to the frequent insults hurled at "todays frum bochurim" or "high school girls today" that I see on this forum. There are plenty of examples of exceptional young men and women learning in the Chabad school system (not to mention Beis Yaakov and others).
Who said differently?
Quote:
I find that visitors to Chabad houses are consistently impressed with the children of shluchim as well as the "shliach bochurim" and shluchos that help at camps and other activities.
That proves exactly - nothing.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 10:11 AM   #36
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Eventhough the Rebbe made it clear that Lubavitch children belong to Lubavitch moisdos and schools, there are some few exceptions I know of Lubavitch children who succeeded in misnagdish schools. The reasons why their parents were unwilling to make them study in the local Lubavitch school were obvious and relevant.
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Unread 01-18-2011, 10:42 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by mosheh5769 View Post
Eventhough the Rebbe made it clear that Lubavitch children belong to Lubavitch moisdos and schools, there are some few exceptions I know of Lubavitch children who succeeded in misnagdish schools. The reasons why their parents were unwilling to make them study in the local Lubavitch school were obvious and relevant.
pl, explain the "obvious and relevant
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Unread 01-18-2011, 10:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
pl, explain the "obvious and relevant
I won't...
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Unread 01-18-2011, 03:04 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by mosheh5769 View Post
Eventhough the Rebbe made it clear that Lubavitch children belong to Lubavitch moisdos and schools, there are some few exceptions I know of Lubavitch children who succeeded in misnagdish schools. The reasons why their parents were unwilling to make them study in the local Lubavitch school were obvious and relevant.
There are complete threads on this.

Start with here: http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/showthread.php3?t=9200
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Unread 01-18-2011, 03:29 PM   #40
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Thank you!
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Unread 01-18-2011, 05:23 PM   #41
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I can imagine one reason for Mosheh5769: Tuition
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Unread 01-18-2011, 05:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
I asked you ,b/c you have this idea ferom frum LUB bochrim as you had from auto accidents,
Maybe you have an idea of the cause and a solution
I guess I'm only looking at the negative at this point. There're plenty of good bochrim out there. Actually, they are all very good, just that you don't see much interest in learning....
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Unread 01-18-2011, 06:01 PM   #43
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I can imagine one reason for Mosheh5769: Tuition
If it was the only one, B'H, but it isn't the case. There are some more serious problems than this one (and I didn't think about tuition at all, but it may be a problem for some/many. I think that Chabad or not, every Jewish private school is expansive. Sometimes, too expansive. It is time that even fellow Jews realize that "All Jews have money and are rich" is nothing but a myth)

Or maybe I misunderstood you, and you were commenting on my reluctance about sending girls to seminaries
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