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Unread 04-23-2010, 09:06 AM   #1
noahidelaws
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Avoiding the plus sign

I just learned of a chumra of which I was unaware--to teach children to use some other symbol instead of the plus sign, because of the resemblance the plus sign bears to a tzeilem.

My questions are: What are the origins of this minhag, how widely was it practiced in past times, and how widely is it practiced today?
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Unread 04-23-2010, 10:01 AM   #2
Meshulam
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I wouldn't call this practice a minhag in the sense of "Minhag Yisroel Torah," but for what its worth, the plus signs on the volume controls on El-Al's seats were upside-down Ts, rather than crosses the last time I took a flight.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 03:19 PM   #3
Shabbos
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I also usually make my plus signs without picking up the pencil, so that they look kind of like "4"s. I just do it out of force of habit because I heard of the minhag once, and I know many people who do not. But the origins -- I don't know.
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Unread 04-23-2010, 07:58 PM   #4
gentle gentile
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I would suggest lower case sigma personally.
Here is an interesting link to an article on the history of all these symbols for a number of cultures. No mention of Hebrew or Chaldean unfortunately.

Link Here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabbos View Post
I also usually make my plus signs without picking up the pencil, so that they look kind of like "4"s. I just do it out of force of habit because I heard of the minhag once, and I know many people who do not. But the origins -- I don't know.
Actually this character '&' would resemble what you do and is often used for 'this (and) that' sort of like addition I think.
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Unread 04-25-2010, 09:49 AM   #5
FlyingAxe
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterna...tive_plus_sign
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Unread 04-25-2010, 09:31 PM   #6
Gevurah
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"I just learned of a chumra of which I was unaware"

News to you after so many years in Ir HaKOdesh?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:04 PM   #7
FlyingAxe
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I wonder if the Rebbe avoided using plus sign while working on Math problems.

Also, is it perhaps an equal value not to cross one’s t’s?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:23 PM   #8
gentle gentile
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Teachers often use these cr_ss symbols to represent a mistake, a wrong answer. Perhaps we should just leave them as they are with a slight amusement?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:46 PM   #9
Torah613
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And I have heard of some that worry about the wood frames in windows...
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:50 PM   #10
Avrami87
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Tchooks doing their thing, you will never understand.
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What fatality prompted him to marry?! - Solzhenitsyn
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Unread 04-26-2010, 10:56 PM   #11
shoyn
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T613, i've heard of conflicting opinions if the window frame is steel, whats your view?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 11:40 PM   #12
chossidnistar
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any chumros with closing windows in the computer? or hidding the closing sign?
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Unread 04-26-2010, 11:41 PM   #13
FlyingAxe
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Use Alt&F4.
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Unread 04-27-2010, 04:24 PM   #14
noahidelaws
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gevurah View Post
News to you after so many years in Ir HaKodesh?
I'm actually only a recent implant in "Ir HaKodesh"; I wasn't raised here.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 07:37 PM   #15
Dove99%pure
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Don't know if you are serious or not...

I've heard about the plus sign- but I never heard of any problems with the 'x'. What's wrong with it?
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Unread 04-28-2010, 08:19 PM   #16
chossidnistar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove99%pure View Post
Don't know if you are serious or not...

I've heard about the plus sign- but I never heard of any problems with the 'x'. What's wrong with it?
it's a matter of perspective
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Unread 04-28-2010, 10:06 PM   #17
Dove99%pure
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chossidnistar View Post
it's a matter of perspective
Yeah, I guess that making X's is a problem for all those of you with heads screwed on sideways. So if your head is screwed on right side up- then you have a problem with plus signs and if your head is permanently tilted to the side then you have a problem with X's.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 10:53 PM   #18
Meshulam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dove99%pure View Post
Yeah, I guess that making X's is a problem for all those of you with heads screwed on sideways. So if your head is screwed on right side up- then you have a problem with plus signs and if your head is permanently tilted to the side then you have a problem with X's.
haha. Like I think I hinted at above, this matter doesn't exactly keep me up at night.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 10:55 PM   #19
FlyingAxe
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The full version being “Crosstian”?
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Unread 04-28-2010, 10:59 PM   #20
Meshulam
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Yeah, never-mind that last little outburst.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 11:08 PM   #21
Meshulam
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For what its worth, the nautical flag symbol for X is a blue cross.
Wikipedia cites Stallings, L. (2000). "A Brief History of Algebraic Notation". School Science and Mathematics 100 (5): 230–235, claiming that the multiplication sign, x, was chose for religious reasons to represent a cross - and that most non-English speaking countries use the dot, just like I do.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 11:13 PM   #22
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The naval flag is known as [Mr.] Andrew’s Cross. Although in Russia it’s known as Andrew’s Flag.

I was told that in a shull in Tzfas, a care was taken not to cross lines on the floor.

Also, when people do the Shmah thing with their head they must make sure not to do a cross.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 11:14 PM   #23
Meshulam
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When people do the Shma thing, can they do an x?
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Unread 04-28-2010, 11:18 PM   #24
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If they do NE, SW, NW, SE.
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