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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:03 PM   #1
Jude
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Reasons for Going on Shlichus

Why do people go on shlichus?
The answer to that question might be different than why people should go on shlichus!

some answers:
1) because the Rebbe said we should, and I want to do it for the Rebbe
2) because there are so many Jews out there who don't know about Yiddishkeit, and I really want to teach them
3) because that is what I was trained to do all my life and I can't see doing anything else
4) because my father is a shaliach and he has a place for me

shluchim out there: why are YOU on shlichus?
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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:20 PM   #2
rebayzl
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You forgot #5: Because I cannot do anything else (like a melamed).
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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:22 PM   #3
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similar to #3, but though I've heard this reason (re melamdim), I don't really understand it. Can't do anything else? How about being a counterman in a luncheonette?
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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:38 PM   #4
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below dignity, and the pay is low too.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:49 PM   #5
masbir
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The main reason, according to my reading, you ommitted: Public shame being a nonslaich is a secon class citizen within the Lubavitch millue. The same way a Litvish yugermann sitts and learns bec. od peer pressure.

(Now one you are on Shlichos and you sucsses or hardships the feeling you are doing only for the Rebbe becomes habitual thinking, but the main motivation is public embarresment.)

Also (perhaps interconnected with the one before) is many people view the Shaliach as a Cheveraman, and wants to emulate him.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 01:54 PM   #6
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The "below dignity" thing is a result of Chabad education and culture. In Satmar to have a real Job is the most dignified thing and stamding behind a grocery counter is not below any dignity.

In Lubavitch you need the air of oficioldom to be something.

In the Litvish world being a Melamed is a Cherpa.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 02:38 PM   #7
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below dignity, and the pay is low too.
as though fundraising boosts anybody's self esteem
low pay? well gee, it's probably just as good as that of certain melamdim, and even if it's a bit lower, at least it's steady pay which is more that can be said for the salary in many teaching positions

as far as what you (masbir) describe as the main reason, for shame! What cynicism. Although we do a lot of criticizing, I still believe people when they sound genuinely idealistic about "going on shlichus."

And the comparisons to "sitting and learning" are not accurate. It's pretty easy (at least at first) to take an apartment in Lakewood and continue going to yeshiva every day. It's another thing altogether to pick up and move to some place who-knows-where, a year or so after marriage, and be responsible for Yiddishkeit there. In the first case there's no failure element. You just sit and learn and hold out moneywise, as long as you can. In the latter case, you run the risk of slinking home a failure, not having established any decent programs or any viable community, or any money base.

Last edited by Jude; 10-26-2003 at 12:39 PM.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 02:59 PM   #8
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But there are lots of people (mainly the wives) who describe the difficulty of living a kollel life.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 03:11 PM   #9
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true - because the wives are going out and working, and having babies simultaneously, so sure it gets harder as the years go by. The issue is one of Money. A shaliach has far greater money problems because in addition to supporting his family, he has to have the wherewithal to support his outreach activities.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 03:29 PM   #10
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
You forgot #5: Because I cannot do anything else (like a melamed).
Do I detect a looking down on Melamdim?In my eyes, melamdus done properly is one of the highest forms of shlichus, and one of the hardest.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 03:47 PM   #11
masbir
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Call me cynical, I see (and know) it as reality.

I am not talking initially, I am talking after 5 years. It is the opissite of Shlichos, shlichos becomes easier with time when you develope a base, learning oth becomes harder with time. But the same motive.

In general I believe that every community establised it post war ethos, and most follow, which is very good.

I dont see why shlichos is different then any entrepreneur jumping in, in the free market, establishing an independent enterprise, also risky, but rewarding, also can fail, (more fail then Shlicos, I knew very few Shluchim who went bankrupt and closed shop) Many struggle for many years etc.

Millions of people do it in america!
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Unread 08-01-2002, 04:14 PM   #12
Jude
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I
Quote:
am not talking initially, I am talking after 5 years.
that's different ... people can lose their initial idealism, true

Quote:
I dont see why shlichos is different then any entrepreneur jumping in ...
although I hear the point, there's something distasteful (to me) about the very comparison. At least say l'havdil.

anyway, to follow your analogy, is it really so similar? Is that would you do if you wanted to open a business - go to the location that is as far as possible from what you consider your source of inspiration (as the Rebbe said in how to pick a shlichus and in response to Chasidim who want to be as close to the Rebbe as possible), and market a product to people who never asked for it and in some cases make it clear that they have no interest in it?

Last edited by Jude; 10-26-2003 at 12:40 PM.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 06:04 PM   #13
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I feel rather sickened reading your opinion on what the motivations for shlichus are, masbir. Call me naive, idealistic, what you will, but the callous comparisions you make are highly disillusioning and kind of repulsive. I'd say that the majority of newlyweds who head out into the Great Unknown do it for reasons #1 or 2, at the least #3.

But why bother explaining and discussing? It's your opinion against mine or any other member's. Just a little reminder that comparing shlichus to just another risky business venture runs a high risk of disillusioning and turning off a lot of vulnerable readers here--So remember, think before you post. Especially if it's your personal opinion being expressed, being made to sound as fact.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 06:29 PM   #14
masbir
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Jac Welcome back!

(realized no one used the terms "sickening" etc while you and others were away, people just made their points!)

According my reason no one can be dissallusioned, since it is peer pressure they HAVE to go, since they cant remain in the sechune.

So I dont worry when I am stating my OPINION of the fact, no one will charge out.

And on the other hand, if he is really idealistic, how in the world will my reasoning about others affect him?
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Unread 08-01-2002, 06:32 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
You forgot #5: Because I cannot do anything else (like a melamed).
Then of course there are those (like me) who are nebach not EVEN good enough to be a melamed, and had to go into business.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 06:42 PM   #16
Jude
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Quote:
people just made their points
yeah, and got their posts deleted

Quote:
According my reason no one can be dissallusioned, since it is peer pressure they HAVE to go, since they cant remain in the sechune.
logic? because they HAVE to go, therefore they're not disillusioned? huh?

Quote:
if he is really idealistic, how in the world will my reasoning about others affect him?
ever hear about one remark of leitzanus dispelling 100 (1000?) words of rebuke? why is that the case? if the words of tochacha were valid, why should a wisecrack dispel them?

Last edited by Jude; 10-26-2003 at 12:41 PM.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 08:16 PM   #17
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<
(realized no one used the terms "sickening" etc while you and others were away, people just made their points!) >>

Why, thank you for your warm welcome, masbir! Luckily, my sensitivies have been dulled in my time away and I actually find your comments very amusing. :p

Suffice it to say that Jude seems to be doing a fine job at expressing my questions with your explanation.
I just couldn't not respond to your (earlier) post when you were in fact disillusioning some idealistic young Chassidim with your opinions--yes, even opinions hold weight when expressed in a very strong and factual manner. So I'm making a request of you, I'm asking you to think before you post in this public forum.

Fortunately for you, you can breathe a sigh of relief and go on with expressing your opinions and points, as I don't intend to argue this all out with you and do in fact intend to leave all these crucial discussions to the other experts on board here--i.e. in simple lingo, I'm not planning on getting into the discussion board and arguing it out with you, so
enjoy!
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Unread 08-01-2002, 08:27 PM   #18
masbir
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Did I make fun (Letzones) or belittle the inspired person? I stated a fact, it is as if said most Jews put on Tefilin because of Mitzvos Anoshim Melimodeh, how does that discourage or uninspire the inspired idealstic fervent Jew?

The ideal and goal to bring peple closer to Judiasim is one of the most nobelest callings even if not everyone does for the purest of reasons.

Why the venom?

Did I belittle th greatness of their work? I just describe motivations.

The fact is that today, the Mesiras Nefesh which was the lot of the trailblazers, is boruch hashem not there, everyone sees that you can do it even in Thailand and Beijing, but who said it has to be MSN. Adrabbeh.

Letzonos achas Doche me'eh tochochos, has quite a recent source.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 08:34 PM   #19
masbir
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<>

In other simple words: If you only do a thing on inspiration, once the fuel of inspiration is gone becuase of any reason, you will stop doing that thing, but if you do do becuase everyone does does it you dont depend on ideals and inspiration.

If you need example of marriage: It is good that there is a shame factor in being devorced, for if it not (as happened in the secular world, and may have eroded also within the ultra world) once the love dies down the marriage is dead.

Again, what is illogical?
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Unread 08-01-2002, 09:25 PM   #20
Jude
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Did I make fun (Letzones) or belittle the inspired person?
no. That was an analogy in response to your question. Apparently it did not convey to you, the point it was meant to convey.

In any case, your tefillin example is not one we find relevant since it presupposes your premise which we reject, though having read through the posts, I haven't noticed any venom.

Quote:
the Mesiras Nefesh which was the lot of the trailblazers, is boruch hashem not there
boruch Hashem?! what ARE you talking about?

Quote:
because they HAVE to go, therefore they're not disillusioned?
the train of thought boggles my mind
you're saying that because they go not out of inspiration, but because they have to, therefore they are not disillusioned, why? because they were never inspired in the first place!
heaven help us!

Quote:
If you only do a thing on inspiration, once the fuel of inspiration is gone because of any reason ...
aha! now we're getting to an important issue, and what I think is The reason for going on shlichus, which hasn't been mentioned yet although it's the most important reason.

By way of introduction: The Rebbe objected to Chasidim's saying "ad mosai" because they were being good, dutiful Chassidim, who were saying what the Rebbe told them to say. The Rebbe said I don't want that! You need to say "ad mosai" mit an emes! Not because you're super-mekusharim who hang on the Rebbe's every word and jump to fulfill his every hora'a and give the Rebbe nachas!
Don't you get it? The Rebbe wants the saying of "ad mosai" as well as going on shlichus, as well as realizing his vision of Geula, to be things we incorporate and internalize in our mindset, so that WE want it.

Last edited by Jude; 10-26-2003 at 12:46 PM.
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Unread 08-01-2002, 09:39 PM   #21
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masbir and every one else,

I think that many do go out because of mitzvas anoshim milumodoh. but as opposed to you, i think it is indeed one of the most incredible accomplishments of the rebbe. He raised a generation that kiruv is engrained in them as eating kosher is. it is so part and parcel of lubavitch that even grube yungen want to do it. thats a gevaldige maaleh that shlichus is something we do so bipashtus that we dont even need an inspiration for it any more. its a generation of shluchim. its not good that some shluchim are grube yungen, but the fact that even grube yungen are looking to go on shlichus mit a pashtus is one of (if not the) greatest miracles of this dor hashveeii.
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Unread 08-02-2002, 01:24 AM   #22
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I agree to this point, but I would greatly hesitate to term ANYONE involved in the Rebbe's inyonim (practical concepts) a "grube yung"! (In Skarbovian Yiddish, this is a term that connotes utter boorishness). As to Mitzvos anashim melumodo (commandments performed due to repetitiveness) - I have never seen this to be the case; there is always some excitement - shlichus is true "living on the edge" - one long adrenalin rush! Ok –you know what I mean.
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Unread 08-02-2002, 07:27 AM   #23
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but as opposed to you
Opposed to me? I agree with your words one hundred percent!
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Unread 02-23-2003, 12:38 PM   #24
Jude
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A Chassid whom the Rebbe wanted to send on Shlichus, wrote the Rebbe that since he was sick and weak and had no strength to go on Shlichus, he asked the Rebbe to release him from Shlichus.

The Rebbe responded: I thought you’d write the opposite: since I need to fulfill my Shlichus but I’m weak, therefore I ask for a bracha that I should have the strength to fulfill the Shlichus in the best possible manner!
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Unread 10-26-2003, 12:48 PM   #25
Jude
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bittul
Out in the world, merely earning a living Al Pi Torah is enough, while in Chabad the Rebbe demanded the Mesiras Nefesh to go out on Shlichus from EVERYONE.

Now, are there distinctions? Of course! We can all recognize the reality that someone who may have just become frum and was working with no time to study Torah, someone with a real impediment (and not just a fear of the unknown etc.) had a legitimate reason for not going on Shlichus - and you know what - they'll probably receive utmost respect!

Someone whom the Rebbe told specifically not to go on Shlichus will also receive that respect!

But if someone for no good reason did not go on Shlichus, then they do not deserve respect other than as a fellow Jew - not Chosid.
how do you see that practically, i.e. respecting him as a Jew but not as a Chasid?
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