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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:27 PM   #26
rebayzl
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She longs for it and is dissapointed but not Surprised for any days that passes and it didnt happen yet
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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:38 PM   #27
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So who said anything about surprise?

Some people are takka looking out the window for a sign of Moshiach; others simply go about their business, blithely content to admit that "technically" the Moshiach could come even now.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:41 PM   #28
RebMoshe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gevurah
what about the case where the kalla is not yet met her shidduch... she longs for her chuppah nonetheless...
Then she is not a kallah.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:53 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
the kalla mashal is inadequate since she knows the date of her wedding
Yes. I said that I don't have a good moshol. How about a single girl looking for her bashert?

Quote:
It's not that we KNOW that Moshiach is coming today, but we (should) think that not only he might come, but he will come today, and if, by the time we go to sleep he hasn't come, we should be truly disappointed, as disappointed as you would be if you were counting on company showing up and you prepared for them and were looking out the window for them, and they surprisingly, did not show up.
I think that we are saying the same thing except that I include the possibility that there are some days on which Moshiach cannot come.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
Some people are takka looking out the window for a sign of Moshiach; others simply go about their business, blithely content to admit that "technically" the Moshiach could come even now.
True. And some people see signs of Moshiach when they aren't there.

It stopped raining? Ahah! That must mean that Moshiach is coming.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 01:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by stamayid
True. And some people see signs of Moshiach when they aren't there.

It stopped raining? Ahah! That must mean that Moshiach is coming.
Nu, what's the harm. As long as they don't stop planting trees...

As for me, I don't hold by rain, I hold by the amount that rings up on the cash register

"That will be $7.70, sir. Cash or charge?"
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Unread 11-05-2003, 02:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
How about a single girl looking for her bashert?
Me and Stam agree again. I am Gil Student
Yechi Moshiach Po

Is a perfect mashal......some could not care less if their bashert shows up...others are obsessed until they find that other half...
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Unread 11-05-2003, 02:15 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
Nu, what's the harm. As long as they don't stop planting trees...
The harm is when they drum themselve into such a furor that they incorrectly convince themselves that Moshiach has already come!!!
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Unread 11-05-2003, 02:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
"That will be $7.70, sir. Cash or charge?"
Where I come from, $0.26 or $26 is considered significant (YKVK). I guess it's a matter of priorities.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 02:27 PM   #35
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oy gematrias...

358 is where its at....
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Unread 11-05-2003, 02:58 PM   #36
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Yn, Jude: did you look up the reference(s) from the Rebbe that I gave? (Just curious).
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Unread 11-05-2003, 03:57 PM   #37
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I looked...it makes reference to "Moshiach Stam" (who knew we had a celebrity on board!?)

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're fishing for...
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Unread 11-05-2003, 07:24 PM   #38
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What does moshiach stam mean.
You see from there what are valid beliefs.
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Unread 11-05-2003, 09:28 PM   #39
chassidus
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Quote:
Originally posted by stamayid

But what does he do with the Rambam?[/b][/quote]

Ramabam himself says that you should concider the world as if it is a ballenced scale... so obviously not EVERYONE has to do teshuvah first.

And remember there is the time of Moshiach before the time of Techiyas hamesim, and both preceed "Alam Haba." We are guarenteed that EVERY jew will become worthy of Olam Habba through his activities in these times, if not earlier.
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Unread 11-06-2003, 08:36 AM   #40
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YN ....you read that book?

Nu Stam.....do your sources say everyone will be redeemed?
If not, Moshiach will come faster by you...
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Unread 11-06-2003, 12:21 PM   #41
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gevurah
YN ....you read that book?
Approx 1/2 so far. Parsha by parsha.
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Unread 11-06-2003, 08:16 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gevurah
358 is where its at....
358? Shnach? What's 358?
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Unread 11-06-2003, 11:49 PM   #43
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Gematria Moshiach
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Unread 11-09-2003, 09:21 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by stamayid
These are different things. I cannot think that Moshiach will come in my lifetime or expect it if I don't know whether or not he will. I can hope. I can prepare for the possibility. I can anxiously wait.
Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis
rebayzl,

i was quiet until now but i must say i think your idea of how a yid is supposed to believe in moshiach or in anything, is very much not in line with how the rebbe taught us.

we have bitochon that moshiach will actually come today and that the Eibishter will deliver us bepoel mamosh. not only that he could. am i selling my house yet? no. why? the rebbe once answered that its related to the inyan of nimna hanimno'os.

IOW a yid can have bitochon that ut ut kumt moshiach and at the same time make long term plans, and be serious about both. halevai i had this level of bitochon, (i don't) but that is what should be. it's not only a belief that he COULD come. thats good for MO and some litvishe. the rebbe taught us different. thats what bitochon is. we trust that Hashem will actually heal the sick person i am saying tehillim for, not only that he can.

you remind me of a misnagdisher rosh kolel in toronto who told the teachers of the schools there, when the entire city was saying tehilim for a certain girl who was injured in a car accident and was in critical condition etc, that they should not build up the kids' hopes that she may indeed recover because if she doesn't they will have a chalishus in their emunah (their emuna will be weakened).

IOW make their emunah weak now so that it does not become weak later. this rosh kolel hasnt got a clue what bitochon is and thinks every child in town suffers from the same weaknesses as he does (in his emunah and bitochon). a rachmonos oyf zei.

perhaps i missunderstood you. aderabeh please clarify.

the biur of nimna hanimno'os was the rebbe's .. i remember hearing it from the rebbe him self and he was not talking about himself. he was talking about every yid. you can say that "i dont understand how thats possible" but dont say its absurd. the rebbe did indeed say that and i am surprised that you never heard it. [probably after his time ... ]

I remember hearing once that the rebbe once bemoaned the fact that the belief in moshiach was lacking, vihorayeh - if someone asked you for a loan till moshiach comes you would not give it, because in your mind that is not something that is happening so fast. So it seems that he wanted the emunah in moshiach to be more than just that he CAN come.
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Unread 11-09-2003, 02:40 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by stamayid



I think that we are saying the same thing except that I include the possibility that there are some days on which Moshiach cannot come.
[/b]
Such a belief precludes the possibility of awaiting his arrival every day and every moment. The Rebbe does address the various sources that seem to preclude the possibility of his coming at certain times. I'm sure the scholars of the board can provide thses for you. Stam, I surely want that you should be able to say :"L'yshuascho kivinu kol hayom" and mean it!
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Unread 11-09-2003, 03:05 PM   #46
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There is nothing wrong with Stam's belief - as the Rebbe writes in the place I referenced (post # 58).
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Unread 11-09-2003, 09:43 PM   #47
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torah613

If i understand correctly the rebbe is being sholel the idea that achake lo means only that he will come in some future date. the rebbe says that the seder of the words does not make sense if thats the pshat. (i think the rebbe is also sholel the idea that moshiach cant come on shabbos and yom tov.) with regard to stamayids beleif, i think to interpret the beleif in moshiach as beleiving that he will come in some future date etc. is wrong. i dont know if he could be considered an apikoros c"v but it certainly is not what chazal had in mind when they talked about the urgency and belief in bichol yom.
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Unread 11-09-2003, 09:58 PM   #48
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Leayis, did you read the letter t613 was metzayen to?
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Unread 11-09-2003, 10:43 PM   #49
Torah613
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Obviously not!
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Unread 11-10-2003, 09:01 AM   #50
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i sure did and thats why i wrote what i wrote
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