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Unread 02-08-2012, 12:50 AM   #1
LavDavka
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Zohar vol. 1, 140a

In many places in sichos that discuss tzadikim getting up with/before Moshiach (example), it references Zohar vol. 1, 140a. Does anyone know what this is referring to? I went through it and didn't see anything remotely connected to the subject.
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Unread 02-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #2
Kookoo Kabalist
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Could it be a mistake of the moitzee l'oir?

What you're looking for is on 139a, where it actually says it.

I've seen mistakes like these before...
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Unread 02-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #3
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1. I've seen the reference many times; I don't think it's a mistake.

2. I don't see anything on 139a either.

3. I feel like I might be doing something embarrassingly wrong, like looking in the wrong sefer. We're talking about the Zohar on parshas Toldos, correct?
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Unread 02-08-2012, 09:53 PM   #4
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After a second check, I can verify that it's not a mistake (although, your having seen it in many seforim isn't really a proof for anything. I've seen mistakes printed over and over again in multiple seforim).

The reason you're not seeing it is because in some prints it's on page 139a, in others it's on page 139b, and in others it's on page 140a. That all depends on the print you're using. It seems the ma'areches was m'tzayin to one specific print. That's all...

And yes, we're talking about Zohar - Toldos. And yes, it also says it pretty straight out. Check the page numbers on the Zohar you're using and try looking through all the page numbers I mention above. You shouldn't have a problem finding it.
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Unread 02-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #5
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I must be missing something. Here's what I see, beginning 139a:

1. Yaakov and Eisav in the womb
2. How Eisav tricked Yitzchak, and why he fell for it
3. A question and answer regarding Yaakov's trickery
4. Why Yaakov prepared lentils, and what Eisav lost for it
5. Lentils and redness
6. Why Yaakov tricked Lavan
7. Hashem's justice
8. How He dealt with Adam
9. Why Hashem deals more mercifully for the wicked than the righteous
10. Why Hashem tests the righteous (beginning with Avraham)
11. The advantage of the soul over the body

Now, what did I miss?
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Unread 02-09-2012, 12:28 AM   #6
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Look - beginning from the part that reads:" , ' , ,

Like I already said, depending on the Zohar you're using, you'll have a different page number. Find the above words and read onward. That's where you'll find the idea...
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Unread 02-09-2012, 12:58 AM   #7
LavDavka
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Gosh thank you for leading me through this but I still can't find it.

Here is a link to Zohar on Hebrew Books, around where 140a starts. Can you point out where it is? Thanks a lot.
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Unread 02-09-2012, 01:49 AM   #8
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Interestingly enough, in this Zohar it's even earlier, on page 137a-b. It's in the Medrash Ne'elam part of the Zohar, and in this PDF that's on page 473 and on.

That goes to say about the page numbers...
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Unread 02-10-2012, 12:25 AM   #9
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Thank you! And now, for a discussion of the text?

Before we start: the reference hopes to support the assertion that (some) tzaddikim will be resurrected before the era of Moshiach. The reference seems to point to the argument about how many years "before" will the tzaddikim rise. There are five opinions:

a. 40 years after the "ingathering of exiles" (which is x years before the final resurrection (???)),
b. 210 years "before"
c. 214 years "before"
d. a varying amount "before" for each tzadik
e. there will only be one resurrection (no "before")

The question is, "before" what?

Is it referencing the point of 408 years into the sixth millennium (does that mean the year 5408? That was 364 years ago Or maybe the sixth millennium is a reference to the Moshiach era)? (If I'm understanding correctly, the latest resurrection was supposed to occur in said year.)

If the argument is about how much before the latest (or final) resurrection the tzaddikim will rise, we really have no reference point to understand the timeline being spoken about in the context of this reference/footnote. Some options:

1. x years before 5408, which would negate this reference.
2. x years before the era of Moshiach entirely (but then are we assuming that Moshiach won't come for another x years (from today) at least (because the "early resurrection" didn't happen yet?))
3. x years before the final resurrection, which occurs 408 years after Moshiach comes. But then, that still doesn't place the "early resurrection" before the beginning of the Moshiach era.

Am I completely misunderstanding this? Is there a valid reference from here to prove that tzadikim will (or may) be resurrected before Moshiach comes?
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Unread 02-10-2012, 12:43 AM   #10
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On a related note, possibly interestingly, in the similar mugah sicha in vol. 2, the Rebbe only references this Zohar in relation to techiyas hameisim being after Moshiach comes.

Edit: possibly even more interestingly, this reference is brought in a mugah sicha that says tzaddikim will rise immediately upon Moshiach's arrival. The plot is thickening.

Last edited by LavDavka; 02-10-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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