Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Lubavitch > Chassidus > Hot Topics

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 04-12-2010, 09:33 AM   #1
Eltere Chossid
Senior Member
 
Eltere Chossid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 177
What does a Rebbe have over other Tzaddikim/Gedolim?

What is the difference between a Tzaddik and a Rebbe? Of course the Rebbbe is the Rosh Bnei Yisroel, but is there any difference other than that ?
Eltere Chossid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 12:33 PM   #2
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
There is a Tzaddik, a Rebbe, and the Nosi HaDor

A Tzaddik is a righteous person. They can go hide in the forest and learn Torah all day or live in the world. Difference between Yosef and his Brothers.

R' Avraham HaMalach was a Tzaddik

A Rebbe is a Tzaddik of course but he is a leader. He invests his very soul into his followers and sacrifices his own extended tefillos and learning to help his followers.

A Nosi HaDor is a Tzaddik, and a Rebbe (before and after the revelation of Chassidus but in different ways). He is the leader of the generation because he not only is a tzaddik and a Rebbe but he also invests his very soul into EVERY SINGLE JEW. To the point that even a Jew who doesnt follow the Nosi's demands and request but not even the Torah can come to the Nosi and look for guidance. Never in history has a Torah Jew rose up that even secular Jews and non Jews come for guidance, blessings, and advice. The Rebbe was the pinnacle of the Nosi HaDor which is why everyone struggles after Gimmel Tammuz.

Who is the Nosi HaDor today? Where is the leader that Chassidic Rebbes all come to meet, and Prime Ministers and heads of State and Government for Israel and America? Where is this Jew?
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 01:11 PM   #3
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
A Rebbe is on a higher level than Adam Harishon:
"בכלל בתורת החסידות לא מתפעלים כ"כ ממעלתו של אדם הראשון – ביחס למעלתו של רבי חסידי ("אַ חסידישן רבי'ן"), שבודאי גדלה מעלתו ממעלת אדם הראשון."
(This is simple to comprehend based on the explanation of the "new neshoma" of the Alter Rebbe, that his neshoma was not part of Adam Harishon even before the sin)

In the words of the Friedicker Rebbe:
אדם הראשון איז ניט געווען קיין רבי, פרצוף אדם קדמון איז אויך ניט קיין רבי, פרצוף איז דאָך אַ ציור, און רבי איז ניט דער ענין פון ציור

More information in the "Characteristics of a Tzaddik" thread.
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 02:26 PM   #4
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
... and yet Adam Harishon is higher than Moshiach...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-30-2011, 02:30 PM   #5
Lamp Lighter
Senior Member
 
Lamp Lighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
... and yet Adam Harishon is higher than Moshiach...
I was under the (false?) impression that Moshiach is the ultimate tikkun for Adam HaRishion thus bringing him up to the level before the Cheit which with the exception of a few Souls, is the highest level of spiritual acheivement.

Can you bring me a source to set it straight?
Lamp Lighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2011, 06:50 PM   #6
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
... and yet Adam Harishon is higher than Moshiach...
Moshiach is the shleimus of Adam. Thus the inyan of "Adam Dovid Moshiach" and also מאד, vda"l. As brought in Chassidus b'shem the Arizal, Adam was the chaya klolis, Moshe was the neshoma klolis, and Moshiach is the Yechida klolis.
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2011, 07:33 PM   #7
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
The statement I brought is a direct quote from Chassidus. Vda'l.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:09 PM   #8
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
שע"י מעשה המצות נעשה בחי' אדם לעילא כמ"ש במ"א אך עדיין לא הי' שלימות האדם עד ימות המשיח דכתי' בי' ישכיל עבדי כו' וגבה מאד אותיות אדם בהיפוך אתוון ר"ת אד"ם אדם דוד משיח כידוע והיינו ג' הזמנים שיהי' בהם בחי' אדם באדה"ר ובדוד ושלימותו יהי' במשיח והוא יתקן בחי' אדם בשלימות עד שיהי' יותר נעלה גם מבחי' אדם שהי' באדם הראשון בג"ע קודם שחטא דכתי' בי' ויניחהו בג"ע כו'.

Toras Chayim, parshas Yechi.

(I mean "Vayechi" )
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:36 PM   #9
Intrigued
Senior Member
 
Intrigued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
The statement I brought is a direct quote from Chassidus. Vda'l.
In the other thread YN brings from the Rebbe that Adam was greater than Rashbi, the Arizal and teh Bsh"t only mitzad his guf, which was yetzir kapav shel HKBH. Obviously, this also goes on Mashiach who is also born basar v'dam.
ואף שידוע "הלשון מרבינו ז"ל שאמר . . שאדם הראשון הי' . . למעלה מהבעש"ט והאריז"ל וגם מרשב"י" – ה"ז רק מצד מעלת גופו של אדם הראשון, שהי' יציר כפיו של הקב"ה,

But mitzad the ruchniyus, Mashiach is the pinacle of creation. As was said, Yechida sh'bYechida.
Intrigued is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-31-2011, 08:38 PM   #10
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankel Nosson View Post
שע"י מעשה המצות נעשה בחי' אדם לעילא כמ"ש במ"א אך עדיין לא הי' שלימות האדם עד ימות המשיח דכתי' בי' ישכיל עבדי כו' וגבה מאד אותיות אדם בהיפוך אתוון ר"ת אד"ם אדם דוד משיח כידוע והיינו ג' הזמנים שיהי' בהם בחי' אדם באדה"ר ובדוד ושלימותו יהי' במשיח והוא יתקן בחי' אדם בשלימות עד שיהי' יותר נעלה גם מבחי' אדם שהי' באדם הראשון בג"ע קודם שחטא דכתי' בי' ויניחהו בג"ע כו'.

Toras Chayim, parshas Vayechi
Exactly. Meaning there are contradictions as to what is higher, lower etc. Meaning most have us (baring YN, of course) have no real idea what we are talking about when we sprout these kinds of statements, even when quoting the various answers etc.

Even the quotes that we think we do understand, do not always have to be quoted. But that is a different discussion, about something that in todays climate, has unfortunately has fallen by the wayside, and not for the better...
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List Of Gedolim zelda The Rabbeim & Gedolei Yisroel 138 03-24-2010 03:28 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com