Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Lubavitch > The World of Lubavitch

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 08-25-2002, 01:42 PM   #1
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Items Belonging to or Handled by the Rebbeim

Could we have some sources and discussion about how to regard those items belonging to or handled by the Rebbeim (or other tzadikim)?

for example:
chasanim use the Rebbe's siddur on the day of the wedding
the Rebbetzin gave R' Bistritzky the scarf/handkerchief (?) used by the Tzemach Tzedek, for him to take to E.Y. for his wedding
the items in the library
shirayim of non-Chabad Rebbeim

lekach the Rebbe gave
dollars the Rebbe gave
water from the mikva the Rebbe used, before anybody else went in
kos shel bracha from the Rebbe and bottles of mashke from the Rebbe
matza from the Rebbe
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-25-2002, 02:05 PM   #2
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
I heard it's a problem to give it to a Goy- i.e. you can't sell Mashke from the Rebbe for Pesach.
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-26-2002, 12:44 AM   #3
mendelp
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
I heard it's a problem to give it to a Goy- i.e. you can't sell Mashke from the Rebbe for Pesach.
The Rebbe says that explicitly
mendelp is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-29-2002, 06:30 AM   #4
donny
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 96
So what should be done about Leckach?
donny is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2002, 08:59 PM   #5
Asher
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
i.e. you can't sell Mashke from the Rebbe for Pesach.
Then there should be no mashke from the Rebbe left after the very first Pesach following the giving of these mashke. Same goes for lekach.
Asher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2002, 10:51 PM   #6
hishtatchus
Senior Diamond Member
 
hishtatchus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,606
the Lekach is actually made from honey given to Machon Chana. As for the Mashke, yes, that was my point. There shouldn't be any.
hishtatchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 12:21 PM   #7
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
is mashke=kos shel bracha?
btw - haven't heard a single source yet, Anybody?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 12:35 PM   #8
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
I dont get your original question what is your are looking a source for? If it holy? if it has healing power?


For sure its holy, see LS v, 32, Nissan.

About not selling them because they are holy, see LS 16 parshes Bo.

About left over from the AR wine, see in the Rebbes hagodeh.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 12:46 PM   #9
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
are there sources in nigleh for this? sources non-Chasidim would respect as to why a Chasid would cherish being able to use the Rebbe's siddur, or have some item of the Rebbeim?

this reminds me of the story (source?) about one of the Chabad Rebbeim going through a bunch of items to see which were authentic holy items and which not. He separated them into two piles.
The Chasidim repeated this with his son, and he divided them the same way, thus proving that items belonging to Rebbeim have some intrinsic holiness which holy people can detect.

There's also the story about ? with tefillin, where he thought there was something wrong with him, since he didn't sense the kedusha of the special tefillin, when actually, the special parshiyos weren't in them.

But these stories, as important as they are, are anecdotes. Not hard and fast sources in nigleh.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 01:04 PM   #10
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Now I get your question!

The Rebbe always added when giving dollars from his Shvers Kupoh the CHAZAL (pesochim 212 a) "Kol hanotel pruteh ma'iyov Misborech" (=whoever takes a pruteh from Job will became blessed)
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 01:08 PM   #11
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
Iyov? what does the Chazal mean?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 01:11 PM   #12
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Please explain your question clearler.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 01:57 PM   #13
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
it's hard to express it clearer! What peruta? Why Iyov? Why blessed?Why did the Rebbe say it? the whole thing ...
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 02:12 PM   #14
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Let me attempt again: There was a man who lived in Utz, his name was Job (in Hebrew Iyov), he was G-D fearing and a Just man, he was a Tzadik. [there is a whole book in the bible dedicated to the trials and tribulation of this man, but it is not the focus of my post]

About this rightous man, the Gemara says that his blessings where in all of his belongings, so if a man took a pruteh [the name of lowest coin in Talmudic times] from him, he would be blessed and prosper.

Now, this shows that the belongings of Tzadik carry some blessed powers within them, so that even without any verbal blessing from Iyuv, just having his belongings, carried the blessings of GD in them.

Now, whenever the Rebbe used to contribute from his Holy shver's Kupeh (account) a symbolic amount of twenty dollars or even a dollar to a big project, the Rebbe used this Maamer to illustrate the greatness of the slightest amount of a tzadik

Last edited by masbir; 09-03-2002 at 09:06 AM.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 02:29 PM   #15
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
wow, what a clear explanation
now isn't it odd that we learn this from Iyov? Like what about the Avos? what about Moshe Rabeinu? Dovid Ha'Melech? Why Iyov?

Last edited by Jude; 09-02-2002 at 04:20 PM.
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 03:58 PM   #16
rebayzl
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,354
I think because he was Goy, the only way he was able to give over Kedusha was tru this. Dovid/Moshe/Ovos did it thru TEACHING.
rebayzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 04:14 PM   #17
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
The same idea with a different twist.

To the Ovos you went for divine inspiration, only to Iyov the went for material welfare.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-02-2002, 04:21 PM   #18
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
still seems very odd, especially when according to some, Iyov didn't even exist!
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 08:43 AM   #19
bocaj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 245
Jude, see R. Emanuel Shochat's book Chassidic Dimensions, pages 96-98 and the extensive notes there for a host of sources in chazal
bocaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 09:07 AM   #20
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
I dont have the book, can you post the refrences?
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 09:21 AM   #21
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Another source is the ancient custom (brought in Rabeinu Becha'i shmos and in his Shilchon shel Arba shar alef, as a minhog from ancient times) that they used the table they fed the poor, as their coffin

Last edited by masbir; 09-03-2002 at 02:27 PM.
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 11:45 AM   #22
bocaj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 245
Yerushalmi Moed katan 3:1 (see Lik. Sich. 4:p.1096); Yer. Moed katan 3:2 re shirayim; Bereshis Rabbo 39:11 etc.
bocaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 12:27 PM   #23
pretzel999
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 797
Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
I think because he was Goy, the only way he was able to give over Kedusha was tru this. Dovid/Moshe/Ovos did it thru TEACHING.
First of all Iyov was no 'goy' even according to the sources he was before matan toiroh.......he was no more a 'goy' the Shem or Ever so he surely knew da's koinoi. Secondly he was giving over 'brocha' birkas hashem hee taashir...
pretzel999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 01:50 PM   #24
untervegens
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 557
Quote:
Originally posted by Asher


Then there should be no mashke from the Rebbe left after the very first Pesach following the giving of these mashke. Same goes for lekach.
Actually there is a bottle of Mashke from the Rebbe still around: One of the goyshe nurses who attended to the Rebbe after the stroke asked the Rebbe for a bottle of Mashke as Segula, and the Rebbe gave him a bottle! There are people who know this Goy and could get Mashke from the Rebbe today!

Another source about chafetzim of Tzadikim: The Yerushalmi (I think, I don't remember the exact source, have to search for it, maybe someone else could help me out), that one of the sages had the stick of Rabbi Meir and the stick taught him "daas".

The concept of holyness in material things is very Torah'dig indeed. When we perform a Mitzva with an object of Olam Haze it becomes holy. Our gashmiusdike things which we use as "divrei horeshus" don't become holy. But a Tzadik, whose actions are all serving Hashem "bechol drochecho do'ehu", even objects which by us are considered "divrei horeshus" are holy.

The Frierdiker Rebbe wrote special labels for various objects from the previous Rebbeim which were in his posession and are now in the AGUCH library, and were displayed a few times in the last years.

The story about Rebbeim selecting holy items from non holy items is about the Rebbe Rashab and his son the Frierdiker Rebbe about the Ksovim of the Gniza hachersonis, but I'm not sure about the authenticy of that story.

The story about Tefilin (if it's the same one) is printed in the beginning of Toras Sholom p. 5 about Tefilin from Reb Zushe which came to Reb Levi Yitzchok of Barditchev.
__________________
kalisker
untervegens is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-03-2002, 02:29 PM   #25
masbir
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,287
Quote:
Another source about chafetzim of Tzadikim: The Yerushalmi (I think, I don't remember the exact source, have to search for it, maybe someone else could help me out), that one of the sages had the stick of Rabbi Meir and the stick taught him "daas".
This is the first refrence in bocaj post, moad katan 3:1

(Thanks Bocaj)
masbir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Differences between the Rebbeim Maskil The World of Lubavitch 84 05-28-2007 10:50 PM
Toiveling Kitchen Items EtzChaim613 Halachah & Minhagim 12 02-05-2003 03:23 PM
The Rebbeim on Tznius yehonasan Lubavitch Dress Code 1 08-19-2002 02:35 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com