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Unread 07-18-2002, 12:37 AM   #51
Wahoo
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About girls drinking:
I know this is not in everyone's case, but I've seen some girls drink and the only reason they really did it was to make a statement. Kinda like saying, "Everyone look at me. I can drink this etc."
If you honestly like the taste of a drink, fine take a drink, but know your limits b/c drunkeness is definitely not tznius nor in the ways of a Chassidishe girl.
And I also agree that it doesn't take mashke to have an inspiring/opening up farbregen (though I could see how it might help in the case of a male).

I agree with you, downunda. To me, it seems like the mashke problem is going up, not down.
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Unread 07-18-2002, 08:11 AM   #52
masbir
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Got to tell you masbir that from my experience the opposite is true
So, I saw in my circles and so someone wrote about a certain Yeshiva who were into drinking and they slacked off. I think with the more Chasidish elemnts thats true.

Anyway, my theory can stand without this factoid.
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Unread 07-18-2002, 10:38 PM   #53
rena
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thank you for the answer-- i just want to clarify... i am definatly NOT saying that girls should drink!! just wanted to know why that one reason didn't seem to be aplied equaly
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Unread 07-19-2002, 05:05 PM   #54
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It's a true peleh! Because of Eis Lasos there are many heterim today for women to do things that are befeirush against halacha - not because of misguided feminist ideals! I say misguided because men and women are NOT equal - they ARE different - and according to chassidus women are greater! So why a woman would want to use a "crutch" that men need to begin to reach spiritual heights that women already posess is beyond me! It reeks of goyishe so called feminist ideals of "if a man can do it so can a woman"!
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Unread 07-20-2002, 09:55 PM   #55
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B"H

I dont know if someones quoted this before, but in kitzur shulchan Aruch it says in chap 42:16,
"A woman should not partake of wine when her husband is not at home. Outside of her home, she should not partake of wine even if she is accompanied by her husband. The same laws apply to other alcoholic beverages. A woman who is accustomed to drinking wine in her husband's presence may drink a small quantity of wine even when her husband is not at home."
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Unread 12-22-2002, 02:55 AM   #56
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There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED WHAT SO EVER for there to be alchohol at a girls or woments farbrengen. I have been to many many farbrengens and I think adding mashke would turn the whole farbrengen into a joke. I was once at a womens and girls farbrengen and the farbrenger was a well respected rabbi. Throughout the farbrengen he alone drank 3/4 a bottle of mashke maybe more. Towards the end he wasnt talking clearly and the farbrengen turned into a laughing matter. We were all told to get up and go by one of the women there. The rabbi wanted to continue even though it was past 2am. The next time we farbrenged with the same Rabbi without mashke it was so much more meaningful and we learned and talked alot more and were serious about it. Bringing Mashke to a womens farbrengen is completely wrong. Women do not need to drink to talk. Singing helps open up. And women naturally are more serious. Also if drinking Ch'V was served at a womens or girls farbrengen, I think alot of ppl would come for the drinks and not the farbrengen. The one's who really wanted to farbreng seriously would not be able to.
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Unread 12-23-2002, 11:42 AM   #57
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To add to what HaMayseh said, I don't think men should be drinking when Farbrenging with women. My friends once attended such a Farbrengen, and when the Rabbis got drunk, it became less of a laughing matter and more inappropriate.
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Unread 02-23-2003, 12:09 AM   #58
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i agree with hishtatchus actually last yr i was by a farbrengen that the rabbbi was drinking and alot of my friends who are anti drinking got very upset and it turned into a drinking not drinking debate...another time it just turned inappropriate...i think if its women at a womens fabrengen thats fine with limitations (please none of that sweet lequiar) but men drinking at women farbi is kinda...inaappropriate
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Unread 03-03-2003, 07:48 PM   #59
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ill add my little opinion to this thread. I like drinking mostly, except for some liquers that are gross. I would love it if girls' gatherings had drinks. id probably go just for the drinks as someone said previously. C'mon though we gotta be honest with ourselves, once we give in a little, theres no telling how much girls are gonna be drinking in a few years. So basicallly although i want drinking to be allowed for girls I strongly dont suggest it. Cuz look at the guys, the torah and the rebbe says to drink a little, but they all come home from farbrengens stoned....
the community and individuals have given in to other things in the past(clothing, media etc) it has mostly lead downwards. Do any of you guys want to see yourself or daughters in an AA meeting in the near future?
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Unread 03-04-2003, 12:48 PM   #60
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It's already been pointed out as an issue of Halachah of women not drinking, so it's out of the picture. The question is about Chasidim walking home shikor from a Farbrengen. My personal opinion is that in CH there's nothing wrong with it - it's a Yiddishe/Chasidishe community. West side Manhattan may not be the right place for it.
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Unread 03-04-2003, 01:10 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
To add to what HaMayseh said, I don't think men should be drinking when Farbrenging with women. My friends once attended such a Farbrengen, and when the Rabbis got drunk, it became less of a laughing matter and more inappropriate.
A Rov drinking 'leshikrah' while 'farbrenging' with 'noshim'???'hoilelus'! and unbelievable prostkait, and bechlal I don't think men should 'farbreng' with noshim, a little talk, maybe.............getting shikker?
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Unread 03-04-2003, 03:39 PM   #62
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how are you differentiating between farbrenging with them and "a little talk"?

Quote:
as noahidelaws posted: "It is both desirable and necessary to have someone speak often before the women in the N'shei Chabad organization. (Analyze Hilchos Talmud Torah of the Alter Rebbe, end of ch. 1). If a man will succeed more at this, he should speak, and even in a situation of doubt." (emphases in original)

Yagdil Torah, Eretz HaKodesh vol. 6 p. 2584, cited in Sha'arei Halocho Uminhog vol. 3 p. 159.
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Unread 03-29-2004, 05:39 AM   #63
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i havent read the post and i prob wont today ut i just wanna say amybe its a matter of the girls want to drink not that they need it they jkust wanna drink like all the boyz cuz its not fair that for guyz its all cool to get abit tipsy but for ther girls the whole issue is totally tabboo!!
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Unread 03-29-2004, 07:25 AM   #64
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Although I have used the "women are less inhibited" line to explain this issue to others, deep down I find it less than satisfactory. As a girl, I often envied the freedom of expression found on the other side of the Mechitza. For example at weddings, where the men can express their Simchah by just running around in a circle, while if a girl doesn't know the steps to the dance, she basically stands on the sidelines until she figures them out or the dance changes. She'd have to be very gutsy to just do her own thing.

I have also found girls' (and even more so women's) Farbrengens to be much more formal and less relaxed and open than men's. I'm not saying we're supposed to get drunk and curse each other out, but women are very self-conscious of how they sound and look, and could use some inhibition-lowering tactics
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Last edited by stwill; 03-29-2004 at 12:21 PM.
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Unread 03-29-2004, 09:15 AM   #65
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different topic but I can't figure out dance steps so either I find the running circle or I make it and I'm usually ok
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Unread 03-29-2004, 04:29 PM   #66
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Hint: If you know you're going to a wedding and you're clueless about dances - learn some BEFORE the actual wedding and you wont have to run around in circles the whole night!
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Unread 03-29-2004, 04:31 PM   #67
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I don't mind running in circles, I don't think I have the ability to master a dance even if I learn it before and it doesn't bother me
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Unread 03-29-2004, 04:39 PM   #68
shmush
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Everyone has the ability to do everything.
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Unread 03-29-2004, 04:46 PM   #69
iamachassid
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your optimistic. Not something I'm striving for, not on top of mh to do list
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Unread 03-29-2004, 04:50 PM   #70
shmush
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what? being optimistic? or learning dances...
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Unread 03-29-2004, 05:40 PM   #71
iamachassid
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lol, I didn't realize that. The dances but now that you mentioned my poor optimism
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Unread 03-29-2004, 10:17 PM   #72
Jude
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gowns are great if you don't know the steps ...

about women and farbrengens - where do you see in Chabad history, that women ever farbrenged?
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Unread 03-30-2004, 03:28 AM   #73
mordechai7215
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The Rebetzin Chana used to "farbreng" (I think it wa son yud alef nisan?) for a select group of alter chasidim (r' shmuel levitin etc)
The Rebetzin Rivka used to tell stories on 19 kislev
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Unread 03-30-2004, 12:32 PM   #74
Jude
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in other words, it has never been the Chassidic practice, including under the Rebbe as Nasi, for women/girls to farbreng?

so girls don't need l'chaim at farbrengens because women/girls do not farbreng, men/boys farbreng, and at farbrengens one drinks l'chaim
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Unread 03-30-2004, 04:07 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
in other words, it has never been the Chassidic practice, including under the Rebbe as Nasi, for women/girls to farbreng?

so girls don't need l'chaim at farbrengens because women/girls do not farbreng, men/boys farbreng, and at farbrengens one drinks l'chaim
Please don't say that!

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