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Unread 09-19-2005, 01:44 AM   #1
Nissan
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On Being a Chossid: Is it ever too much?

I have a general question that I would like your opinions on:
As a Chossid, do you feel there is a point of too much strictness and if so what would that be in your view?

I am talking about, for example, someone who I know that uses two Ketchup bottles, one for Milchig and one for Fleishig. The reason they do this is because people (with, let's say, hands that have touched pizza) will touch the bottle and get it greasy and then later someone else will use it with Fleishig hands and you will have mixed milk and meat together on the outside of the bottle, which I believe is Ossur. Now, their reasoning is understandable, however is that not being to strict? (This is kind of a weak example, because I would think that a simple solution would be to wash the outside of the bottle with soap and cold water to make it clean)

That is just an example, maybe someone else knows what I am talking about? (And I am not talking about on Pesach where it is better to go extreme)

One more thing I would like to add:
I am not talking about just simply going beyond the letter of the law, as that is what a Chossid does. I am talking about going extremely beyond the letter of the law, to the point where you are making yourself crazy over things that are not even mentioned in Halacha (ex. Not stepping on cracks on a sidewalk).
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Unread 09-19-2005, 11:22 AM   #2
Yankel Nosson
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Do they have separate milk and meat garbage bags?

The issur is cooking milk and meat together. Unless their ketchup bottle is quite hot, this is a case of a chosid shoiteh.

(On the other hand, if you squeeze the ketchup directly on the burger and the meaty steam rises up into your ketchup bottle, that might be a different matter to consider....)

In general, I think the answer to your question is "consult a trustworthy mashpia".
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Unread 09-19-2005, 05:23 PM   #3
Nissan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankel Nosson
Do they have separate milk and meat garbage bags?

The issur is cooking milk and meat together. Unless their ketchup bottle is quite hot, this is a case of a chosid shoiteh.

(On the other hand, if you squeeze the ketchup directly on the burger and the meaty steam rises up into your ketchup bottle, that might be a different matter to consider....)
Thanks, I hope I said what I meant clearly. By Chossid Shoiteh you mean a foolish Chossid, right? I thought the Issur was to mix even cold stuff, so now that totally confuses me as to why the person I know would do that.
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In general, I think the answer to your question is "consult a trustworthy mashpia".
I gotta get me one of those.
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Unread 09-19-2005, 05:27 PM   #4
hishtatchus
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We have 2 ketchup bottles in our house, because of the possibility YankelNosson brought up: If you squeeze your ketchup onto hot foods, you may be causing problems with the steam. We also have separate spices for that reason.
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Unread 09-19-2005, 08:58 PM   #5
HoravDave
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With regards to the ketchup I don't see that as being "too extreme", on the contrary, I find it similar to the Halachah of having seperate salt shakers for milk and meat. (In camp Gan Yisrael's kitchen they have seprate ketchup bottles for example).

Are you speaking about the entire spectrum of Halachah or just Kashrus?
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Unread 09-20-2005, 01:08 AM   #6
Nissan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hishtatchus
We have 2 ketchup bottles in our house, because of the possibility YankelNosson brought up: If you squeeze your ketchup onto hot foods, you may be causing problems with the steam. We also have separate spices for that reason.
Yeah, the people I know also have seperate spices.
Interesting, thanks.
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Unread 09-20-2005, 01:16 AM   #7
Nissan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoravDave
With regards to the ketchup I don't see that as being "too extreme", on the contrary, I find it similar to the Halachah of having seperate salt shakers for milk and meat. (In camp Gan Yisrael's kitchen they have seprate ketchup bottles for example).

Are you speaking about the entire spectrum of Halachah or just Kashrus?
The whole spectrum, I think. I mean when is too much too much?
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Unread 09-20-2005, 01:32 AM   #8
noahidelaws
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It's relative. Personally, anyone less frum than me is frei. Anyone more frum than me is farfrumt.
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Unread 09-20-2005, 10:36 AM   #9
Gevurah
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankel Nosson

YN's sons are navi's so they are able to squeeze ketchup and teleport it outr of the bottle


At home, we have separate garbage cans on both sides of the kitchen....
One is sometimes used for both but I do not see it as an extra chumra to have two..

There is a difference when one is a bocher, wheh one has small children and when one's children are tzaddikim who spend the ganze tag zogging to Tatty about Moshiach and are trying to keep up with the Kaduris
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Unread 09-20-2005, 10:43 AM   #10
Nissan
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So YN's children are Navi'im and your kids are Tzadikkim. I am honored to talk to you guys
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Unread 09-20-2005, 10:57 AM   #11
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gevurah
YN's sons are navi's so they are able to squeeze ketchup and teleport it outr of the bottle
Baalei moifsim they are not. But they can certainly get the ketchup out of the bottle...and onto the table, and the chairs and the floor....
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Unread 09-20-2005, 01:36 PM   #12
Nissan
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That's what kids are for!
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Unread 09-21-2005, 07:35 AM   #13
Gevurah
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both comments were about YN's children....
We do not keep up with the Kaduri's in my house....
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Unread 09-21-2005, 03:05 PM   #14
Nissan
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Oops, sorry, I read it wrong. (I think I'm dyxlesci)
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Unread 09-21-2005, 08:36 PM   #15
HoravDave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nissan
I have a general question that I would like your opinions on:
One more thing I would like to add:
I am not talking about just simply going beyond the letter of the law, as that is what a Chossid does. I am talking about going extremely beyond the letter of the law, to the point where you are making yourself crazy over things that are not even mentioned in Halacha (ex. Not stepping on cracks on a sidewalk).
Not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk sounds like a medievel superstition, nothing associated with Judaisim.
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Unread 09-21-2005, 11:06 PM   #16
Tachlis
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Quote:
We have 2 ketchup bottles in our house, because of the possibility YankelNosson brought up: If you squeeze your ketchup onto hot foods, you may be causing problems with the steam. We also have separate spices for that reason.
same here and I don't think it's too strict at all. So many mistakes were made by people using the same ketchup for both milchig and fleishig, it's just simply easier and safer being a little more careful.
I'm surprised no body said this - the idea of "too frum" shouldn't realy be in our vocabulary. What's the meaning of "lifnim meshuras hadin" and isn't that what Chassidim are all about???? To make extra hidurim and precautions should title you a chossid - for sure not a "chosid shoiteh"! I mean, aren't we the ones who wear two pairs of tfillin (and from bar mitzva nuch) and sleep in Taleisim ketanim and our yarmulka's and sooo sooo many more?!? So doesnt an extra hidur in the mitzva of Kashrus fit into the same category?

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(This is kind of a weak example, because I would think that a simple solution would be to wash the outside of the bottle with soap and cold water to make it clean)
every time you use it??

Quote:
As a Chossid, do you feel there is a point of too much strictness and if so what would that be in your view?
In my opinion, 100%. From what I remember learning, Lifnim meshuras hadin are one of the main traits of a Chossid.
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