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Unread 12-23-2011, 03:21 PM   #26
tefillin
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If you do not see a certain understanding to be wrong, then why are you asking again and again, and parsing R' Kotlarsky's speech to pieces? Even better, instead of coming here and asking vague questions, find a knowledgable chassidishe yid, who knows how to learn nigla and chassidus, and learn with him. That will clear up all your questions, and you will not have to rewrite ikrei emuna based on nebulous diyukim found in speeches... Therefore - let someone else continue this discussion, if they want].
Is it fair then for me to conclude that you believe that there is a reasonable and acceptable interpretation of Rabbi Kotlarsky's words but that you are not willing to go into it in this kind of forum?
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Unread 12-23-2011, 03:40 PM   #27
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I already wrote - why look for interpretations of his words, if he can be asked directly? If he says he meant something that is problematic - then again, there is nothing to "interpret", and your problem will be with him.
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Unread 12-24-2011, 09:12 PM   #28
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I already wrote - why look for interpretations of his words, if he can be asked directly? If he says he meant something that is problematic - then again, there is nothing to "interpret", and your problem will be with him.
I'm actually more interested in the way the 5,000 shluchim who were present responded (with their silence) than with whatever Rabbi Kotlarsky had in mind. And since I can't ask every single one of those 5,000, I'm here trying to find out if Toras Chabad has any explanation for the silence that might reassure me.
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Unread 12-24-2011, 10:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by tefillin View Post
i'm actually more interested in the way the 5,000 shluchim who were present responded (with their silence) than with whatever rabbi kotlarsky had in mind. And since i can't ask every single one of those 5,000, i'm here trying to find out if toras chabad has any explanation for the silence that might reassure me.
'

The problematic issue here is the need for "reassurance". The only correction to the matter is to learn. But learning requires bittul, as stated in many places. Until then, there will only be the need for "reassurance", .
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Unread 12-24-2011, 10:54 PM   #30
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I'm actually more interested in the way the 5,000 shluchim who were present responded (with their silence) than with whatever Rabbi Kotlarsky had in mind. And since I can't ask every single one of those 5,000, I'm here trying to find out if Toras Chabad has any explanation for the silence that might reassure me.
So call up a few of those 5,000 and ask them why they did not pelt him with tomatoes (if they even heard it, that is). Barring that - you can assume as I wrote before.
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Unread 12-24-2011, 11:17 PM   #31
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So call up a few of those 5,000 and ask them why they did not pelt him with tomatoes (if they even heard it, that is). Barring that - you can assume as I wrote before.
Torah613, did you hear it?

If anybody on Chabadtalk heard it, please let us know what you think he meant by it. Thank you.
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Unread 12-25-2011, 10:38 AM   #32
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No, I did not (and ... I was not there).
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Unread 12-27-2011, 02:02 PM   #33
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Is it hard to believe that Hashem put the Sun in place to give us warmth, and to light up the Physical world? Of course not because you see how the Sun helps us each and everyday and even the Scientist who forsakes G-d agrees with us that without the Sun the world could not survive.

So why is hard to belive that Hashem put a Nosi HaDor in place to give us spiritual sustenance and to light up the physical world with spirituality? Hashem could have done it in an infinite amount of ways and THIS is the way that he chose. Same as the sun and moon.

As YN quoted Pesuka D'Zimra, We believed in Hashem AND Moshe his servant. If we already have emunah in Hashem why also his servant? Because this servant is the shliach to bring the sustenance to the Jewish people.

This is how its done. So we pray to Hashem, and we ask the Rebbe to pray on our behalf as well. If you want to read into the Rabbi's words that is fine but I have never heard him speak cryptically. He didn't say to think about the Rebbe during Shemonei Esre. This is no chiddush, as pshat in the Torah has Jews praying that the Avos pray to Hashem on our behalf.

Your belief that the Nosi HaDor delivers the sustenance into the world doesnt block what Hashem feels you deserve.

Still, its good to know that I have the Rebbe on my side.
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Unread 12-28-2011, 01:44 AM   #34
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Tefillin, if you want to know about this topic, for starters, I recommend that did you read through all the posts on this site. If something is still not clear, please let us know. Thanks in advance.
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Unread 12-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #35
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Tefillin, if you want to know about this topic, for starters, I recommend that did you read through all the posts on this site. If something is still not clear, please let us know. Thanks in advance.
Are you saying that the limit of what we can request from the Rebbe is to pray to Hashem for us or give us a brocho, but to ask him to grant us the actual thing (be it a physical or spiritual want or need) would be assur?
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Unread 12-28-2011, 11:12 AM   #36
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This is a circle. It has no beginning and no end and continues over and over again.

While a square also seems to have no beginning and no end at least there is a point...or four.

If you are a Lubavitcher who is genuinely confused and wants to strengthen his hiskashrus to the Rebbe then your questions have been answered

If you are a Trollish and a bissel Misnagdish and are simply trying to point out that a mainstream Chabad spokesman same something that equates avoda zarah and since 5,000 shluchim didnt protest that we are all a bunch of Idol worshippers then your questions have also been answered.

If you are somewhere in the middle of that then we are not able to help you.

Frielichen Chanukah.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 09:34 AM   #37
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This is a circle. It has no beginning and no end and continues over and over again.

While a square also seems to have no beginning and no end at least there is a point...or four.

If you are a Lubavitcher who is genuinely confused and wants to strengthen his hiskashrus to the Rebbe then your questions have been answered

If you are a Trollish and a bissel Misnagdish and are simply trying to point out that a mainstream Chabad spokesman same something that equates avoda zarah and since 5,000 shluchim didnt protest that we are all a bunch of Idol worshippers then your questions have also been answered.

If you are somewhere in the middle of that then we are not able to help you.

Frielichen Chanukah.
There is no agreement among posters here regarding my questions. Therefore, I still don't know if Lubavitchers believe that one is allowed to request one's needs and wants from the Rebbe or one is only allowed to request the Rebbe to intercede/davven on one's behalf.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 11:09 AM   #38
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nu nu nu nu nu

who knows how to learn nigla and chassidus..... does not mean semicha
from CT.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 11:11 AM   #39
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I think there is one thing we can all agree on...
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Unread 12-29-2011, 11:56 AM   #40
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I think there is one thing we can all agree on...
Do you acknowledge that there was no consensus on how to answer my questions? I have been reading CT for quite some time now, and I see that there are some posters who do know how to learn niglah and Chassidus and who must have semicha from places besides CT.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 12:14 PM   #41
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Have you ever seen a message board thread where all the posters united together to provide one defined answer to a question?

Even an Am HaEretz knows that...
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Unread 12-29-2011, 12:19 PM   #42
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Have you ever seen a message board thread where all the posters united together to provide one defined answer to a question?

Even an Am HaEretz knows that...
You said my questions were answered. I guess you're right. The answer is that there are two opinions in Chabad on this issue. I'm left to conclude that some Lubavitchers request their needs and wants from the Rebbe with the belief that he can grant their requests and some Lubavitchers think all of this is assur, but both opinions are according to Toras Chabad.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 12:23 PM   #43
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You said my questions were answered. I guess you're right. The answer is that there are two opinions in Chabad on this issue. I'm left to conclude that some Lubavitchers request their needs and wants from the Rebbe with the belief that he can grant their requests and some Lubavitchers think all of this is assur, but both opinions are according to Toras Chabad.
And are you any better off than before the question was answered?

Another completely pointless discussion brought to you by ChabadTalk
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Unread 12-29-2011, 12:27 PM   #44
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And are you any better off than before the question was answered?

Another completely pointless discussion brought to you by ChabadTalk
Yes I am. Before I asked on CT I didn't know there were two opposite opinions on this issue. Now I know there are.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 12:36 PM   #45
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Yes I am. Before I asked on CT I didn't know there were two opposite opinions on this issue. Now I know there are.
You are such a Troll.
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Unread 12-29-2011, 07:19 PM   #46
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You are such a Troll.
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Unread 12-30-2011, 11:29 AM   #47
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Gil Jr.?
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Unread 12-30-2011, 11:50 AM   #48
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Gil Jr.?
What do you think R. Kotlarsky meant?
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Unread 12-30-2011, 12:26 PM   #49
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This will suffice for the known.
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Unread 12-30-2011, 12:38 PM   #50
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What do you think R. Kotlarsky meant?
Whatever you hold to be the greatest degree of apikorsus--probably he meant something like that.
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