Did the Rebbe and the Rashab ever meet each other?

[Smirnoff]

אינני זוכר איפה ראיתי לע"ע - אבל פעם ראיתי בתוך הספרים, סיפור נפלא על כ"ק אדמו"ר נשיא דורנו בהיותו עם כ"ק אדמו"ר מוהרש"ב נ"ע. כו

[MahTovChelkeinu]

Distance from Yekatrinoslav (Specifically: Dnebrovsky, Dnipropetrovs'ka Oblast', Ukraine) to a large city near Lubavitch (Specifically: Smolensk, Smolenskaya Oblast', Russia): 514 miles.

Distance from Nikoliav (Specifically: Nikolaev, Mykolayivs'ka Oblast', Ukraine) to Lubavitch: 540 miles.

Distance from Yakatrinoslav to Rostov (Specifically: Rostov-On-Don, Rostovskaya Oblast', Russia): 235 miles.

The Rebbe was born in 1902. Reb Levik was in Nikoliav until 1909. The Rashab moved to Rostov in 1915 and was niftar in 1920. The family was in Yakatrinoslav until 1939.

[mosheh5769]

Very huge, huge distances indeed.

[MahTovChelkeinu]

I did find a couple of articles online that suggests there were commercial trains that travelled close to 100 miles per hour in Russia at that time. I don't know what the train maps looked like, but its concievable that the trip could have been accomplished in 3 days or less (assuming one day to reach the train station, one day on the train, one day to reach Lubavitch, which may actually be high). And I have seen lots of references to the Rebbe's family and the Rashab's family travelling by train for various reasons.

[chossidnistar]

Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu

I did find a couple of articles online that suggests there were commercial trains that travelled close to 100 miles per hour in Russia at that time. I don't know what the train maps looked like, but its concievable that the trip could have been accomplished in 3 days or less (assuming one day to reach the train station, one day on the train, one day to reach Lubavitch, which may actually be high). And I have seen lots of references to the Rebbe's family and the Rashab's family travelling by train for various reasons.

if they were going at 100 miles per hour, in less than 2 and half hours you cover the 235 miles, 5 hours for 500 miles,etc

[Torah613]

Originally Posted by smirnoff

אינני זוכר איפה ראיתי לע"ע - אבל פעם ראיתי בתוך הספרים, סיפור נפלא על כ"ק אדמו"ר נשיא דורנו בהיותו עם כ"ק אדמו"ר מוהרש"ב נ"ע. כו

סיפור אמיתי? או אחד מספורי דמיונות שנתרבים מיום ליום? כו'

[mosheh5769]

Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu

I did find a couple of articles online that suggests there were commercial trains that travelled close to 100 miles per hour in Russia at that time. I don't know what the train maps looked like, but its concievable that the trip could have been accomplished in 3 days or less (assuming one day to reach the train station, one day on the train, one day to reach Lubavitch, which may actually be high). And I have seen lots of references to the Rebbe's family and the Rashab's family travelling by train for various reasons.

Maybe you're referring to the Trans-Siberian Railway. If it is the case, it was possible to make very long journey quite relatively quickly with the Trans-Siberian Railway.

[wednesday]

I was reading Ashkavta D'Rebbi ( http://hebrewbooks.org/3404 ) and so far, while the FR, his two daughters, and RSG are mentioned, the Rebbe is not. It might be that since the Rebbe had not married in yet, and he was only 18 at the time, no one thought to remember or record any meetings.

It's hard to say that the two never met, because after all the Rebbe was related, but it probably was uneventful at the time.

[Torah613]

They never met. That much is known.

[mosheh5769]

Originally Posted by wednesday

It's hard to say that the two never met, because after all the Rebbe was related, but it probably was uneventful at the time.

Not at all! It's a fact the Rashab and the Rebbe never met each other. And apparently, we well never know the reason why, because the Rebbe never talked about that, and all the 'answers" given here are not satisfactory, because each contains a flaw...

[wednesday]

Other than the lack of stories about it (which to a certain extent is evidence) how do we know they never met?

[mosheh5769]

Originally Posted by wednesday

Other than the lack of stories about it (which to a certain extent is evidence) how do we know they never met?

If it did happen, we can be sure it would have been told somewhere. After all, meeting a Rebbe is something trully special, especially when you are a teenager like the Rebbe in the Rashab's lifetime. That it is recorded or related nowhere is the greatest evidence that it didn't happen.

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by mosheh5769

If it did happen, we can be sure it would have been told somewhere. After all, meeting a Rebbe is something trully special, especially when you are a teenager like the Rebbe in the Rashab's lifetime. That it is recorded or related nowhere is the greatest evidence that it didn't happen.

Lo raisi aino raaya. If it wasn't interesting at the time, why would it be recorded?

[Torah613]

Fine. They met, but no one ever heard about it, the Rebbe never mentioned it, the Rebbe's mother never mentioned it (due to lack of any importance since he was merely a teenager), there is no evidence that the Rebbe made such a trip etc. etc. Better?

[chossidnistar]

The Rebbe never mentioned it in any 20 Marcheshvan or Beis Nissan
and nobody asked the REbbe during all these years this question

[Torah613]

The Rebbe never farbrenged on Beis Nissan.

[chossidnistar]

Beis Nissan never falls on Shabbos.

[mosheh5769]

Originally Posted by wednesday

Lo raisi aino raaya. If it wasn't interesting at the time, why would it be recorded?

At the time, maybe, but after the fact why not? If even after the fact (after 40+ years of nesius), it was never mentionned says it all. After all, it would have been a great story for Beis Nissan to tell his chasidim what happened when he met the Rashab, how he prepared for the very long trip, what impression/effect that meeting had on him, what the Rashab told him, etc.

[Torah613]

Moshe, אי משום הא לא איריא, וק"ל.

[mosheh5769]

Originally Posted by Torah613

Moshe, אי משום הא לא איריא, וק"ל.

It is not a proof but we didn't hear any thing else that could lead to the conclusion that they met.

[MahTovChelkeinu]

The Rebbe was born in 1902. Reb Levik was in Nikoliav until 1909. The Rashab moved to Rostov in 1915 and was niftar in 1920. The family was in Yakatrinoslav until 1939

I've looked into this a bit more. A few folks who tend to know a lot of history have told me they never heard of the Rebbe meeting the Rashab, but I could not find it written anywhere.

Then I just saw this timeline on chabad.org, which tends to be pretty good about accurate facts. It says the Rebbe first visited yeshivas TT in 5682 (1921), which is a year after the Rashab was niftar. That strikes me as a good Raya that did not, in fact, ever meet.

[mosheh5769]

One Rabbi told me that everything must happen at its proper time. To illustrate that he told me about how Rabbi Yoel Kahn שליט״א, when he was a bochur, wanted to visit the Rayats for the first time. If I remember correctly what he told me (and please correct me if I missed something), when he arrived in America, he was told that unfortunately the Rayats had passed away. Instead, he attached himself to the Rebbe. We may say that he was destined to be a chosid of our Rebbe. Maybe we can say the same about the Rebbe, that he was destined to be a chosid of the Rayats and not of the Rebbe נ״ע.

But who can really know...

[Torah613]

Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu

Then I just saw this timeline on chabad.org, which tends to be pretty good about accurate facts. It says the Rebbe first visited yeshivas TT in 5682 (1921), which is a year after the Rashab was niftar. That strikes me as a good Raya that did not, in fact, ever meet.

This - is no proof at all.

[chossidnistar]

Originally Posted by MahTovChelkeinu

.

Then I just saw this timeline on chabad.org, which tends to be pretty good about accurate facts. It says the Rebbe first visited yeshivas TT in 5682 (1921), which is a year after the Rashab was niftar. That strikes me as a good Raya that did not, in fact, ever meet.

"Also, if you have little-known biographical information about the Rebbe, please e-mail us at: editor@chabadonline.com.]"

anytime someone can send them the info about the meeting

[Paper]

Did the Rebbe and the Rashab ever meet each other?

The answer seems to be no, from the words of the Frierdikker Rebbe in the following link.

http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx...&st=&pgnum=129

Also, there's the story about how R' Shmuel Grossman (?) once was pestering the Rebbe (age 14-15?) why he wouldn't come with the other Bochurim in the city to Rostov and the Rebbe's mother said to him, "Vos vilst du fun em, er vilt geiin, er veint geiin, er chalisht geiin, uber der tatte luzt em nisht."

Ac"p the toichen is accurately how it was said over.