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Unread 01-18-2004, 05:17 AM   #101
roza
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude

If you're not seeing the Geula, it's because you are not opening your eyes! This is the "limud" the Rebbe teaches in this sicha. And you say all you can do is WAIT?!
Jude,

please explain it to me:

1. Did the Rebbe really said that i or anybody else don't see Geulah because i/anybody did not "open my/their eyes"? Preciesly this idea?

2. Please discribe to me what do you see that you call Geulah begashmius- please give me this eyeopening experience, so that i too will experience the Geulah as you do.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 07:33 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally posted by hishtatchus
That is only bedieved.
You mean Bdi'AVAD.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 07:55 PM   #103
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Roza, the advantage of a forum with posts, as opposed to a conversation (unless you tape it), is that you get to re-read and re-read and re-read, to your heart's delight. Want answers to your questions 1 and 2, re-read this thread and study the Rebbe's sichos of 5751 and 5752, preferably in the original.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 08:11 PM   #104
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Well, thanks for an eyeopening advise. I really did not know that (did not notice). Now i will.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 10:15 PM   #105
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Re: Re: What DID I see?

Quote:
Originally posted by roza


Did you see what the Rebbe discribes in the end of the sichah:

http://www.otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgs...ilIF=G&ilSC=30

namely- yiden going to Eretz Israel and Beis Hamikdash Hashlishi on Har Habayis and Tehias hameisim of selected tadikim ???

We will notice it when it will happen- not the other way around.
On THAT page of that Sicha (the above Link) it doesn't mention that we should open our eyes (at that time) and see specifically what is mentioned on that page.

So whatever it says on that page has nothing to do with what the Rebbe wants from us regarding to "open the eyes".
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Unread 01-19-2004, 10:30 PM   #106
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Achake

Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
Achakeh Lo means I am awaiting his coming any day. That means it Is POSSIBLE that he can come today, and I WANT him to come Today (or in a day or two). But It is also possible that he will come later. Otherwise, when this was said 100 years ago it was a LIE. And Torah is Truth.
When we say "Achake...." we are not talking about all "possibilities" nor any guarantee of exactly what will ACTUALLY happen.

Instead we are simply describing the way how we ARE WAITING and expecting Moshiach's arrival.

If Hashem fulfills our expectations immediately or not, does not affect our expectation and how we WAIT for Moshiach.

The way we wait for Moshiach is a MINDSET and a HERGESH it is not a "prediction" of exactly "when", Moshiach will actually come.

Therefore, the issue of "LIE" or "TRUTH", as to what happened the day after we had this HERGESH, has nothing to do with the fact that we WERE SUPPOSED to feel exactly this way 100 years ago, (although our expectation, was then, not immediately fulfilled).

Last edited by RebYankel; 01-19-2004 at 11:15 PM.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 10:36 PM   #107
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You CAN see much more, IF you "look"

Quote:
Originally posted by roza .....but until then my eye opening shows nothing and means nothing (except for seeing the state of the world- it's readiness for Moshiach's coming)
You CAN see much more than the: "except", which you mentioned above, as Jude pointed out in the following post:

http://chabadtalk.com/forum/showthre...0643#post60643

Last edited by RebYankel; 01-19-2004 at 11:22 PM.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 10:44 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by roza
But where do ppl get the idea that the coming of the Geulah depends on our "opening of the eyes" ????
TORAH U'MITZVOIS
Roza,

You (or "someone" is quoting "someone" and asking as to how people got the idea....

Question:

Whom are you quoting and who said that the Geulah "depends" on it?

"Opening the eyes" is something the Rebbe says we need to do but who on ChabadTalk or anywhere else said the word "depends", which you are asking about?

Last edited by RebYankel; 01-19-2004 at 11:23 PM.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 10:47 PM   #109
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Lehatmiah Hatinokes :-)

Quote:
Originally posted by Torah613
[BTW, can you reveal the secret to us, when is the first letter of a word capitalized, when is the whole word capitalized, when is a word (or sentence) written in italics, when in bold and when in red? Al pi kabala, perhaps -
The purpose could have been perhaps so that you should ASK , as we say: "Kedey Lehatmiah Hatinokes"
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:03 PM   #110
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You and Jude are ignoring the main question- what do you see the world's readiness for the Geulah or the Geulah itself bepoel mamash? And if the latest how is it manifest in actuality?

If you and Jude claim that i don't see it-which means that you see something (geulah) that i don't see (your claim).

I read the Jude's post- she was describing the readiness of the world for the geulah but not the geulah itself . if you call the present situation geulah- then i misunderstood you and we were calling different states with the same word- Geulah.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:06 PM   #111
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Question What ARE you saying????

Torah613,

Are YOU saying that you understand form the Igros (photo, earlier in this thread), that there is "nothing wrong" wrong with someone "waiting" for Moshiach, in such a way that he expects Moshiach to come in 1,000 years?

YOUR answer to the above question has to be either a simple YES or a NO.

If someone expects Moshiach to come in 1,000 years is he an Apikores?

(In accordance with the Rambam and accordance with the Rebbe's Igros? YES or NO ?)

If you can't answer Yes or No to the above (without some long twisted story) then:

Torah613, please, don't YOU tell US about WHO is trying to "CONFUSE" anything!


The questions again is simple:

The above either IS or IS NOT Apikurses?
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:21 PM   #112
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When the Komarno Rebbe ZT"L gave a keitz, was he an apikores for believing that Moshiach might come then?
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:31 PM   #113
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It's PART of the process of Geulah

Quote:
Originally posted by roza
I read the Jude's post- she was describing the readiness of the world for the geulah but not the geulah itself .
roza,

The description in Jude's post,

http://chabadtalk.com/forum/showthr...60643#post60643

is not merely "readiness" but rather it is part of the actual process of the Geulah via Moshiach's active Peulah in the world.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:35 PM   #114
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by lambda
When the Komarno Rebbe ZT"L gave a keitz, was he an apikores for believing that Moshiach might come then?
Keitz = end

There is nothing about a keitz that denies that Moshiach can come before then.

Keitz does not mean "cannot come before then" but rather "if not sooner..."
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:36 PM   #115
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Quote:
The description in Jude's post,

http://chabadtalk.com/forum/showthr...60643#post60643

is not merely "readiness" but rather it is part of the actual process of the Geulah via Moshiach's active Peulah in the world.
But the potential Moshiach died and no longer Moshiach
at the moment.
Also you have to proof al pi halacha that the Rebbe was/is chezkat Moshiach.
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Last edited by roza; 01-20-2004 at 12:01 AM.
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Unread 01-19-2004, 11:52 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
Keitz = end

There is nothing about a keitz that denies that Moshiach can come before then.

Keitz does not mean "cannot come before then" but rather "if not sooner..."
I wanted RebYankel to clarify what he means.
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Unread 01-20-2004, 03:16 AM   #117
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ahhh the difference a 'reb' before the name can make!
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Unread 01-20-2004, 09:27 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by lambda
When the Komarno Rebbe ZT"L gave a keitz, was he an apikores for believing that Moshiach might come then?
Better: When the Ramban gave a time when Moshaich would come and it was after his lifetime, was he?
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Unread 01-20-2004, 10:11 AM   #119
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RebMoshe, you sunk my battleship.
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Unread 01-20-2004, 10:22 AM   #120
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Re: What ARE you saying????

Quote:
Originally posted by RebYankel
Torah613,

Are YOU saying that you understand form the Igros (photo, earlier in this thread), that there is "nothing wrong" wrong with someone "waiting" for Moshiach, in such a way that he expects Moshiach to come in 1,000 years?

YOUR answer to the above question has to be either a simple YES or a NO.

If someone expects Moshiach to come in 1,000 years is he an Apikores?

(In accordance with the Rambam and accordance with the Rebbe's Igros? YES or NO ?)

If you can't answer Yes or No to the above (without some long twisted story) then:

Torah613, please, don't YOU tell US about WHO is trying to "CONFUSE" anything!


The questions again is simple:

The above either IS or IS NOT Apikurses?
My response was given already ABOVE (http://www.chabadtalk.com/forum/show...6899#post66899). There is no reason to Fardrei a KOP. My point Was understood.
What is this fixation you have with 1000 years?Unless you are trying to trap me with 24 Teves 5742 ....
Nu Nu.. .

Last edited by Torah613; 01-20-2004 at 03:07 PM.
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Unread 01-21-2004, 02:27 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebYankel


Roza,

You (or "someone" is quoting "someone" and asking as to how people got the idea....

Question:

Whom are you quoting and who said that the Geulah "depends" on it?

"Opening the eyes" is something the Rebbe says we need to do but who on ChabadTalk or anywhere else said the word "depends", which you are asking about?
Jude said that i need to open my eyes to see the Geulah (it's all we have to do) -which means that Geulah depends on my opening eyes.
I say Geulah depends on Moshaich coming and doing the job first.
So it's Judes idea- it's all depends on opening the eyes.
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Unread 01-21-2004, 02:33 PM   #122
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"Jude said?!?" The Rebbe says! The quote was brought from a Sicha. Draw your own conclusions re dependency.
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Unread 01-21-2004, 03:30 PM   #123
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And Rebbe said that Moshiash should come already!
So i have a right to wait for him bekol yom sheyavo and jude said

Quote:
And you say all you can do is WAIT?!

http://chabadtalk.com/forum/showthre...0643#post60643

She is using it in a different context.
Quote:
" Don't wait-just open your eyes"
and the Rebbe did not use it like that.

The Rebbe was talking about the idea of the Geulah to be begashmius.
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Unread 01-21-2004, 03:44 PM   #124
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I take the time to look up the sichos and provide a translation. Then you dismiss them.

If you would like your posts to be taken seriously, please tell us which sicha you are referring to and quote the relevant part. In the past bunch of posts of yours, you persist in negating the Rebbe's sichos quoted earlier.
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Unread 01-23-2004, 07:13 PM   #125
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I am sorry, i just don't agree with your understanding and usage of the sicha.

I also took time to bring this sicha and analize it and you dissmissed it.

You only brought certain parts of the sicha but you are ignoring other parts of the sicha.

Please tell me- why at the end of that sicha the Rebbe asked for the coming of Moshiach and Geulah ?

http://www.otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgs...ilIF=G&ilSC=30
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Last edited by roza; 01-25-2004 at 03:52 AM.
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