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Unread 11-03-2003, 03:49 PM   #51
Jude
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebMoshe
[b]1. The geula process started at the destruction of the beis
hamikdash (or at the latest the year 4000)
why start as late as that? the geula process started with Creation, and the spirit of Hashem hovered over the waters, rucho shel Moshiach

obviously, that's not what the Rebbe is talking about

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2. I do nto know what the Rebbe ZT'L MEANT,
doesn't sound like you want to know what the Rebbe MH"M meant, I can understand that .. the implications are too frightening
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Unread 11-03-2003, 03:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by RebMoshe


Do you believe that Balfour was the aschilta d'geulah? Do you think the Rashab held that way?
Not at all! [and what is "aschilta'!]

I think that from a Historical perpective the Balfour declaration is more powerfull than whatever happened in the early 90s.
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Unread 11-04-2003, 10:34 AM   #53
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we need a sarcasm smily for Mo
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Unread 11-09-2003, 10:13 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by roza
(without going into Rambam)
from the Rebbe's sichos:

if you look at this sicha last paragragh on the left,the Rebbe talks about Geula beRuchnius :

http://www.otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgs...ilIF=G&ilSC=30

Then on the next page on the right (begin with vehahidush degeula) Rebbe said that the geula needs to be begiluy leeney basar,:

http://www.otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgs...ilIF=G&ilSC=30

if everyone then "opened their eyes" they did not see geula and as the Rebbe writes then on the last page of the same sicha that the geula did not come yet.

http://www.otzar770.com/cgi-bin/imgs...ilIF=G&ilSC=30

If Moshiach, who does everything he supposed to do leeyney basar(king forces jews to keep Torah and Mitzvot, fights actual wars of Hashem) so everyone can clearly see that he is Moshiach and everyone will know who is this king Moshiach and will know his identity, came already as Jude said, then would not that be a start of Geula leeyney basar? But right now we don't see neither geula nor Moshiach based on Rebbe's sichos. all i am supposed to do is wait for his coming every day. And how am i supposed to know who is this Melech Moshiach and his identity before his actual coming? all i can do is to point to certain PPl in our time or in previouse time and say that they are/were potential moshiach (shebedor).
first of all, before addressing the points you bring up, it should be noted that immediately preceding the pages you provide us with, the Rebbe says what the chidush of our generation, the 9th, is, as opposed to all generations that precede it up till the 8th (that of the Fr. Rebbe) ... The Rebbe says this as a statement of fact, a chidush ... Anyway, it's not for this thread.

as for your questions - I don't understand them, ESPECIALLY when YOU quote THIS sicha! In the sicha you bring, the Rebbe says (bold is mine):

"we can actually see the chidush of our generation as opposed to previous generations in the avoda of the dor: in our generation there is an incomparable addition, as compared to earlier generations, in the avoda of hafatzas ha'Torah and hafatzas ha'maayonos, whether in the tremendous quantity (the sefarim that are printed etc.) or whether in making the entire world, to the furthest point, a keli to receive the great lights, whether for the Jewish people - through 613 mitzvos or whether for gentiles - by disseminating the Sheva Mitzvos - thus the entire world is illuminated with the "ner mitzva v'Torah ohr" in a way of is'pari'u kol n'horin, that everybody can receive the light as a healthy neshama in a healthy body,

"to the point that we actually see (as mentioned a number of times lately) that the nations of the world in a number of countries, help the Jewish people in their work (similar to and surpassing the way it happened in Egypt), so that even that country [Russia] that was locked for so many years, and they didn't allow Jews to leave, and they didn't allow them to keep Torah and mitzvos b'shleimus etc. - lately the situation has changed from one extreme to another, and now, not only do they allow Jews to do as they please, and enable them to leave, but also - they help them.

"To the point that we actually see that in addition to Bnei Yisrael standing "at the ready" for Geula, the nations of the world are also standing ready for the Jewish people to leave galus already and go to E.Y. with the true and complete Geula."

in the paragraphs you point us to, the Rebbe says that spiritually speaking (b'ruchnius) there is already the shleimus of the Geula and our spiritual eyes see it (like seeing the vision of the 3rd Beis Ha'Mikdash on Shabbos Chazon), and what we need to do is (note thread title): "now we only need to open physical eyes so that they too see the Geula as it is openly revealed to physical eyes now."

Please re-read the last sentence - the Rebbe says ALL we need to do is open our PHYSICAL eyes, so that they TOO will SEE the Geula as it B'GALUI to our PHYSICAL eyes, B'ZMAN HA'ZEH. Please read through this entire thread before responding.

If you're not seeing the Geula, it's because you are not opening your eyes! This is the "limud" the Rebbe teaches in this sicha. And you say all you can do is WAIT?!
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Unread 12-07-2003, 01:05 PM   #55
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Toldos 5750, Sefer HaSichos 5750, vol. 1

There are those who are wondering about what was said lately, that we are standing at the end of galus, ikvesa dmeshicha, and they ask: Where do you see this? The world goes on, year in and year out, as it always does? Its most amazing that they dont examine the events taking place in the world, events that are open and famous!

Lately (starting from the most recent years and continuously increasing as time goes by) extreme revolutions, from one extreme to another, are taking place around the world, and with Hashems kindness these revolutions are taking place quietly. In other words, without wars and bloodshed, rl, to the point that daily life (business etc.) continue as usual as though the world goes on as it usually does, despite an extreme revolution taking place in the conduct of an entire country. But its an inner revolution, taking place through political means:

First of all, starting with the country of Russia (the country where the Rebbe Rayatz, nasi doreinu, came from with his talmidim and shluchim), where after a period of 70 years of a strong and tough police whose terror fell upon all citizens of that country so that even for expressions of criticism of the police, people were punished and sent into exile (Siberia etc.) suddenly, within a very short time, theres an extreme change (through those who lead the country) in the police of the state, and this spreads to other countries too.

So too in the country of China lately a revolution has taken place in the leadership of the country both within, and in regard to its relationship with other countries in the world etc., so too in India where within a relatively short time the leaders of the government, who ruled for a long time, were changed, so too extreme revolutions in other countries around the world, and even the islands, and theres no need to provide details and go on at length since these things are known and publicized.

And we are talking about revolutions in countries that have huge populations, i.e. revolutions in governments and police that rule billions of people around the world, the majority of people in the world!

And the miracle is and its astonishing that people are not paying attention to it, the one the miracle happens to doesnt recognize the miracle that extreme revolutions that have a direct influence on most of the world are taking place quietly and peacefully, which is unheard of in the history of mankind!

Revolutions in the police and government of countries were always accompanied by bloody wars that were waged over a long period of time, messed up daily life, and brought destruction rl. Theres no need to go far to search our history in previous generations since we saw in our generation the terrible destruction of World War II

Whereas nowadays, extreme and very great revolutions are taking place in most of the world and with Hashems kindness without wars, without bloodshed, chv, but quietly and peacefully.

These revolutions in the world in our days we see (not only in human behavior but) also in other created entities in the world: animal, vegetable, mineral earthquakes that have taken place lately, within a short time, and continue now too in different places around the world (in this country too) and with Hashems kindness the number of victims was small, especially relative to similar incidents that took place previously.

The connection these things have with the Jewish people (for one would think that politics around the world have no direct connection with the Jewish people ..) is:

1) the need to recognize the greatness of G-d and to give praise and thanks for His kindness

2) an increase in emuna in the coming of Moshiach and the anticipation of his coming when you see great revolutions its another sign that we are in the final moments of the heels of Moshiach and Moshiach comes immediately.

Most importantly, the events in the world evolve from the conduct of the Jewish people and when the Jewish people increase their avoda in Torah study and the fulfillment of Mitzvos, and in refining the world, including influencing the gentiles to fulfill their 7 mitzvos, it affects in a natural way .. the existence of the entire world "
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Unread 12-07-2003, 01:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
earthquakes that have taken place lately, within a short time, and continue now too in different places around the world (in this country too) and with Hashems kindness the number of victims was small, especially relative to similar incidents that took place previously.
It is interesting in fact that although the world becomes more densely populated every year, the strong earthquakes that have been reported in the last year have generally been in areas of very low population or have, for whatever reason, resulted in few casualties, as per the Rebbe's statement
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Unread 12-12-2003, 10:56 AM   #57
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Vayetze 5752, Sefer HaSichos 5752, vol. 1

We are in a situation in which the physical body and even the physicality of the world is already completely refined and are a ready vessel for all the spiritual lights and inyanim, including and primarily the light of Moshiach Tzidkeinu and the only thing lacking is for a Jew to open his eyes properly and to see how everything is already ready for Geula! We already have the set table, the Livyasan, the Shor HaBar, and the Yayin HaMeshumar, and Jews already sit around the table their Fathers table (i.e. Hashem) along with Moshiach and in our generation its nasi doreinu, the Rebbe my father-in-law, and after 40 years since his passing there is also [through the Rebbes nesius] the heart to know and eyes to see and ears to hear.

And so now there only needs to be, as said, that they open the heart to know and that they open the eyes to see, and that they open the ears to hear, thus using all physical 248 limbs and 365 sinews in addition to Torah study and mitzva fulfillment in general for studying pnimiyus haTorah as it has been revealed in Toras haChasidus, and fulfilling the instructions of our Rebbeim, including studying inyanei Geula in a way that opens the heart and eyes and ears so you understand, see, and hear with the utmost naturalness, within the physicality of the world, the actual true and complete Geula, and to learn the Torah of Moshiach (pnimiyus haTorah) in a way of seeing, for all this is already ready, you just need to open your eyes and then youll see it! [bold in this para. is mine].

In simple words, practically speaking:

(bold is mine) Since the joining of soul and body, spirituality and physicality is something we already have completely, and everything is ready for Geula, you need to do things to actually reveal this.

every person should make a special effort to express and reveal his ruchnius (spirituality) and Chasidishkeit within his gashmius (physicality), so that in his physical matters will be felt the warmth and liveliness that are derived from his Yiddishkeit and Chasidishkeit to the point that there is no separation among them at all, but they are literally one thing
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Unread 12-21-2003, 09:44 PM   #58
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sicha Vayeshev 5752

"It has been said many times lately, especially most recently, that according to all the signs, our generation is the last generation of galus and the first generation of Geula, for all the avoda was already finished, and we already stand ready for the true and complete Geula through Moshiach Tzidkeinu immediately.

"Others ask [posters who have asked this very question, take note that the Rebbe asks and answers it]: The Geula depends on the entire world being ready, not just one person or a few people, not just one portion of the world - but the entire world, for the Geula is connected with and dependent on the gathering of all Jews from the four corners of the world, and also the birur (refinement) of the nations of the world in all countries.

"So where do we see - they ask - a change in the world, that the world is already more ready for Geula than previous generations?!"

the Rebbe elaborates in the rest of the sicha which is printed in Sefer Ha'Sichos 5752, vol. 1, p. 174 (Yiddish, available in translation). This is the sicha of the birur of France and what a radical change has taken place there as compared to the Alter Rebbe's times, what the Rebbe calls a chidush in our generation, and he attributes this change to the impact of nasi doreinu.
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Unread 12-29-2003, 12:11 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
It is interesting in fact that although the world becomes more densely populated every year, the strong earthquakes that have been reported in the last year have generally been in areas of very low population or have, for whatever reason, resulted in few casualties, as per the Rebbe's statement
Except for Iran, that is.

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Unread 12-29-2003, 08:14 AM   #60
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I could make out one word - "Gog" - since it's a palindrome
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Unread 12-29-2003, 08:46 AM   #61
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[Changing the text encoding to Hebrew ISO 8859-8 reversed the letters for me]
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Unread 01-14-2004, 12:24 AM   #62
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Quote:
The Geula depends on the entire world being ready....,
in some other sicha there was an idea of ten men or even one person to be ready (who "opened his eyes")...
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Unread 01-14-2004, 12:47 AM   #63
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Jude, I am ready
When Moshiach will come i will see him. Most ppl will see him.
We need an arrival of the alive (neshama beguf) melech Hamoshich first, then even before he will finish his job we can open our eyes and see the changes even if the geulah is not complete yet. But now we are back to square one- we need an alive king Moshaich first.
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Unread 01-14-2004, 05:54 PM   #64
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pirush Roza?
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Unread 01-14-2004, 07:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
and what we need to do is (note thread title): "now we only need to open physical eyes so that they too see the Geula as it is openly revealed to physical eyes now."

Quote:
"To the point that we actually see that in addition to Bnei Yisrael standing "at the ready" for Geula, the nations of the world are also standing ready for the Jewish people to leave galus already and go to E.Y. with the true and complete Geula."

We are still in golus- when Moshiach will come THEN we will open our eyes and see it. It seems to me that the Rebbe was describing what will happen (geulah bepoel to the point that we will see it with our eyes) when Moshaich will come, as it was happening at the moment. In the end of the sicha it's says that the Geulah still has to come (and yes we are ready) meaning we are still in golus (RL).
But you are saying that we need to open our eyes FIRST....OK let's say you and me have our eyes open (and our glasses on )- will we see anything? If while you are reading this post the geulah H"V will not come yet then you and me will not see anything. Right?
If while you are reading this the Moshaich came and the geulah proccess started then it will be in physical (not just spiritual) to the point that when you and me will open our eyes (and put on our glasses ) we WILL SEE it.

That's what i meant:

Quote:
Jude, I am ready
When Moshiach will come i will see him. Most ppl will see him.
We need an arrival of the alive (neshama beguf) melech Hamoshich first, then even before he will finish his job we can open our eyes and see the changes even if the geulah is not complete yet. But now we are back to square one- we need an alive king Moshaich first.


is it more clear now?
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Unread 01-14-2004, 07:35 PM   #66
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One more point- i am not arguing with the fact that if you open your eyes and see some developments in the world (that are already there, like in the moshal of the "cat in the box" you quoted in the begining of the thread) you can see how we are on the threashold and the coming of the Moshiach will happen any time now and we are ready.
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Unread 01-14-2004, 08:17 PM   #67
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"If while you are reading this the Moshaich came the Rebbe says he's here and the geulah proccess started the Rebbe shows that it has then it will be in physical (not just spiritual) correct, and it is to the point that when you and me will open our eyes (and put on our glasses ) we WILL SEE it."exactly so, which is what the Rebbe says we should do.

I suggest that you go over the sichos quoted in this thread, since your posts indicate that your thinking is not yet in accordance with the Rebbe's on this inyan.
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Unread 01-14-2004, 09:13 PM   #68
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Quote:
I suggest that you go over the sichos quoted in this thread, since your posts indicate that your thinking is not yet in accordance with the Rebbe's on this inyan. [/b]
more exactly-my thinking is not yet in accordance with the Jude's on this inyan.

Just in case you don't get it- besides not reading the sichos YOUR way, ALSO we are almost 10 years since Rebbe's passing- OPEN YOUR EYES
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Unread 01-14-2004, 11:08 PM   #69
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When you ask for a Refuah_Shelema - you mean NOW, or Later?

Quote:
Originally posted by roza
We are still in golus- when Moshiach will come THEN we will open our eyes and see it.
Do you remember when the Rebbe explained how outrageous it is for someone to learn SUCH PSHAT , that when you ask for something, you mean that it should happen "EVENTUALLY "whenever""?

(That was when he was referring to someone who had "a very strait head", and with his great wisdom he understood that when we say "Achakeh Loy Bechol Yom Sheyovo", it doesn't mean "NOW", but rather the "Sheyovo" means "WHENEVER" Moshiach will EVENTUALY come!)

"Open you eyes", means here and NOW, K'Poshut!
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Unread 01-14-2004, 11:17 PM   #70
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I (in my ignorance) don't know which sicha you are referring to, but the Rebbe himself entertains such a pshat in "Achakeh Lo", and does not dismiss it out of hand (definitely not on hashkofo grounds), as discussed here recently (I forget exactly which thread).

Last edited by Torah613; 01-15-2004 at 07:12 PM.
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Unread 01-15-2004, 12:30 AM   #71
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Moshaich will come NOW and then when i open my eyes i will see him.
Now i read the whole thread before and again you were talking about different events that ARE happening and if you pay attention- open your eyes - you WILL see them because they ARE reality.
But you are saying that Moshiach came already (in reality begashmius) -which is not true- no matter how hard you will try you won't see him (unless Moshiach will come by the time you read this post).
I am not talking about Bechol yom sheyavo- and, right, we have a thread on it. There are sourses on it here :

http://chabadtalk.com/forum/showthre...0052#post60052


Here we are disscussing where do you apply "OPEN YOUR EYES" exercise.
The whole thread is about seeing events in the world (which are real) as preparation and readiness for the coming of Moshiach.
Jude claims that Moshiach came already and Geulah is here already but our eyes are closed. (the usual pouring dirt on innocent chosidim who really want Moshiach NOW and Geulah NOW but for some reason Moshiach is not here yet- these are also Rebbe's holy words)
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Unread 01-15-2004, 12:52 AM   #72
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Let's Keep It Simple

Quote:
Originally posted by roza
Moshaich will come NOW and then when i open my eyes i will see him.
If you understand "open your eyes" as Jude explains it, it's very easy to understand, what the Rebbe wanted from us. However if you understand it as you look at it........:

Let me ask you a very simple question:

The way, you look at it, when the time comes and Moshiach Will come, as you say, why will you "NEED to open up your eyes"??????!!!!

You are making a complicated issue out of something that is a simple LANGUAGE issue . The words just have no normal meaning, nor any purpose for saying it at THAT time, your way of looking at it.

When Moshiach comes in the way how the "world" usually assumes it would happen, then "THAT WAY of moshiach's coming" is understood by the "world", to be such a Bias Hamoshiach, that it is SELF Evident that Moshiach is right in front of you and no one could EVER possibly have any need of ever telling anyone "Please open your eyes and LOOK and SEE Moshiach.

However in our CURRENT situation, there is indeed a need to "open your eyes", because otherwise, there is no way you can possibly see it, (as you see that you don't see it YET ).

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Unread 01-15-2004, 01:00 AM   #73
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Look even for events that are so obvious- the ones that were discribed in this thread ppl need to open their eyes- but here no matter how hard you try- you won't see.

OK let me ask you- i am sure you DID opened your eyes -can you please discribe me WHAT do you see ( the way it was done in earlier posts) in all the details- make an article about it. But please don't describe the signs- but the real events of Geulah- describe me how Moshiach looks, what he is doing , where did he go and ect.
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Unread 01-15-2004, 01:49 AM   #74
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Obviously "open your eyes" is not meant in the literal sense, unless everyone by the Farbrengen had their eyes shut!
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Unread 01-15-2004, 02:03 AM   #75
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No they say it's BEPASHTUS.

<<You are making a complicated issue out of something that is a simple LANGUAGE issue >>>
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