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Unread 10-18-2009, 03:27 PM   #1
mvakeshet
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Reasons for mitzvos?

I recently heard someone quote a midrash that said that when Moshiach comes, the reasons behind all the mitzvos will be revealed.

What does this mean? I thought that the essence of mitzvos is that they are beyond reason...
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Unread 10-18-2009, 08:38 PM   #2
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I recently heard someone quote a midrash that said that when Moshiach comes, the reasons behind all the mitzvos will be revealed.

What does this mean? I thought that the essence of mitzvos is that they are beyond reason...
I don't see the point of your question. I think I'm not alone in this case. If Mitzvos hadn't a raison-d'être, why giving them???

All the reasons that we can find behind the Mitzvah is to enable us to better appreciate the Mitzvah itself (but knowing the real reason behind a Mitzvah, only Hashem knows). Moshiach will shed light on all the works that we
have done and we will understand all our Avodas Hashem on a higher spiritual plane that we can grasp at this moment.

But the primary motivation in the fulfillment of Mitzvos should be to serve Hashem Lishma.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 09:48 PM   #3
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I don't see the point of your question. I think I'm not alone in this case. If Mitzvos hadn't a raison-d'être, why giving them???
So that we should do them and thereby bring elokus into the world, by doing actions that Hashem chose (without reason?) should be his will.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 10:23 PM   #4
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As the Rebbe explains in many places, Hashem wants us to keep reasons having in mind their reasons, but that itself is only because that's what Hashem wants, not because the reason compels Hashem in any way.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 11:07 PM   #5
emes m'eretz
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Originally Posted by mvakeshet View Post
I recently heard someone quote a midrash that said that when Moshiach comes, the reasons behind all the mitzvos will be revealed.
What does this mean? I thought that the essence of mitzvos is that they are beyond reason...
In Tanya (chapters 36, 37) the Alter Rebbe explains that in oilom habo we will have the reward of the Mitzvos.
That the reward of the Mitzva is the Mitzva itself.
That this is the revelation of G-dliness which we bring about by doing Mitzvos.

In Derech Mitzvoisecho, minui melech (near the end), the Tzemach Tzedek explains that the reasons for Mitzvos will be revealed to us in oilom habo.
Nevertheless, Moshiach will understand higher ideas; ideas which we will be able to connect to only in a makif (above us) way.


Perhaps the above references can shed some light on the original question of this thread.


I'm not sure where "essence" of the Mitzvos would fit in.
Maybe it would fit in with "reward." Or maybe it would fit in with the higher understanding which only Moshiach will understand. Or maybe it's another thing altogether.
If someone can bring a reference to "essence of Mitzvos" it should help.
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Unread 10-18-2009, 11:40 PM   #6
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http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...f-the-omer.htm

We see here that the Alter Rebbe connects the "reward" to the "essence" of the Mitzvah.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 05:57 AM   #7
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As the Rebbe explains in many places, Hashem wants us to keep reasons having in mind their reasons, but that itself is only because that's what Hashem wants, not because the reason compels Hashem in any way.
Right.
So doesn't that mean that the reason is only secondary to the fact that the mitzvah is the will of Hashem? Sort of like the reason was "created" after the mitzvah itself?
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Unread 10-19-2009, 05:58 AM   #8
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In Tanya (chapters 36, 37) the Alter Rebbe explains that in oilom habo we will have the reward of the Mitzvos.
That the reward of the Mitzva is the Mitzva itself.
That this is the revelation of G-dliness which we bring about by doing Mitzvos.

In Derech Mitzvoisecho, minui melech (near the end), the Tzemach Tzedek explains that the reasons for Mitzvos will be revealed to us in oilom habo.
Nevertheless, Moshiach will understand higher ideas; ideas which we will be able to connect to only in a makif (above us) way.


Perhaps the above references can shed some light on the original question of this thread.


I'm not sure where "essence" of the Mitzvos would fit in.
Maybe it would fit in with "reward." Or maybe it would fit in with the higher understanding which only Moshiach will understand. Or maybe it's another thing altogether.
If someone can bring a reference to "essence of Mitzvos" it should help.
Are you trying to say that the reasons that will be revealed will be precisely how our mitzvos bring g-dliness into the world?
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Unread 10-19-2009, 09:27 AM   #9
emes m'eretz
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My first thought was that the reward will be: seeing the revelation of G-dliness which we accomplish by doing Mitzvos.
And the reasons will be other ideas, perhaps how we connect to G-d, or other reasons.


But perhaps you're right; that the reasons show how each particular Mitzvah brings G-dliness into the world in its own particular way.

And the reward will be: seeing the general revelation of G-dliness which we accomplish by doing Mitzvos.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 12:14 PM   #10
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Right.
So doesn't that mean that the reason is only secondary to the fact that the mitzvah is the will of Hashem? Sort of like the reason was "created" after the mitzvah itself?
The Rebbe says that it being the will of Hashem is the essence of the Mitzvah, while the reason is the giluyim.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 03:52 PM   #11
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The Rebbe says that it being the will of Hashem is the essence of the Mitzvah, while the reason is the giluyim.
giluyim. translation?
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Unread 10-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #12
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manifestations of G-dliness
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Unread 10-20-2009, 05:57 AM   #13
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The Rebbe says that it being the will of Hashem is the essence of the Mitzvah, while the reason is the giluyim.
and so...?
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:36 AM   #14
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and so...?
And so, we must fulfill the Mitzvos even if the reasons are hidden or not clear, because it's not the reason that makes the Mitzvah, but the Mitzvah that makes the reason to fulfill it because G-d gave it to us to be fulfilled.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 01:20 PM   #15
emes m'eretz
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and so...?
Take an example of a married couple.

She wants flowers because they are colorful etc..

He brings her the flowers because she wants them.
He understands (at least some of) her reasons for wanting them, but the main reason he brings it is because she wants them, and he wants to make her happy by doing what she wants.


So too Hashem and us.
We do the Mitzvah because He wants us to.
We may understand some of the reasons, and G-d wants us to try to understand the reasons.
But we do the Mitavah because we love Him, and we want to unite with Him and relate to Him by doing what He wants.

In other words, the bond is the main thing.
The reasons are there, but the bond is a connection which goes beyond reasons.


And as Noachide explained, even when we try to understand the reasons, we are doing so because that is what G-d wants us to do.
Again, because of the bond.


So G-d wants us to do the Mitzvah with the intention to fulfill His will.
And He wants us to try to understand the reasons, with the intention to fulfill His will.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 04:13 PM   #16
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I don't know what any of this has to do with my original question.
I'm assuming if reasons will be revealed when Moshiach comes then reasons are a positive thing.
I'm wondering what's so great about reasons if the purpose is to do them for the sake of the connection or whatever.
Or is it?

Are they just an added bonus?

But then doesn't it end up detracting?
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:04 PM   #17
emes m'eretz
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See post #9, which also incorporates what you wrote in post #8.

There is benefit in the general bond.

And there is benefit in the particular reasons.



To use the above example:
There is benefit when he brings the flowers just because she wants him to.
And there is benefit when he tries to undertand when she explains how the colors and the intricate design make the flowers so beautiful.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:20 PM   #18
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Those were the two posts that sorta went over my head. Would you mind explaining them in simpler language?
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:56 PM   #19
emes m'eretz
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Some of this is a bit speculative, but here goes:

The Alter Rebbe talks about the reward for the Mitzva, that it is the Mitzvah itself.
Meaning, the bringing forth of the G-d's Essence (the Commander of the Mitzva) into the world.
So when we do the Mitzva, we bring G-d's Essence to us.
And this will be revealed when Moshiach comes.
And this will be the reward. Bringing G-d's Essence to us.

In the example with the flowers, he wants to bring the flowers because he wants to do it for her.
And when he brings the flowers, this strengthens and highlights their bond.

And when someone does a Mitzvah not for the reasons, but for the sake of G-d, then I think that this is similar to bringing the flowers for her sake, and this highlights the bond that will be revealed in the Geula, as the Alter Rebbe describes it.

So this is all with regard to the "Reward of the Mitzva is the Mitzva itself."



The Tzemach Tzedek talks about reasons.
And I think that this would be similar to the example where he tries to understand the reasons why she like the flowers.
And he is trying to understand it because she wants him to.
And we try to understand the reasons for Mitzvos because Hashem wants us to.


And as I wrote in post #17, there are benefits to both (the essential bond per se, and trying to understand the reasons.)

Both strengthen and enhance the bond and the relationship, just as it does in marriage, or with a teacher and a student, or with a parent and a child etc.
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