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Unread 08-23-2004, 11:54 PM   #1
Yankel Nosson
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Moshiach: Dovid Hamelech and Moshe Rabbeinu??

Could someone explain this, that Moshiach is often referred to as "Dovid Malka Mashicha", bais Dovid, etc. At the same time we describe Moshe Rabbeinu, a"h, as goel rishon, goel acharon. I see that the Mittler Rebbe, in Sha'ar Ha'emuna (pay-tes, 1) brings down that the shoresh of Moshe is actually the same as that of Moshiach ("u'v'emes b'shoresh echad hem"). Fine -- if Moshe is the same shoresh as Moshiach; but, how does Dovid haMelech fit in?

Maybe this inyan is too deep for the shallow waters of my intellect, but at least let me ask....
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Unread 08-24-2004, 02:56 AM   #2
BaisHamikdashBa
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i think (humble opinion) that goel acharon doesnt mean Moshe ie espashtusa dmoshe (extension of Moshe) which is the nosi hador (leader of the generation)
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Unread 08-24-2004, 08:15 AM   #3
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Instead of giving you the answer, I will teach you how to get all the answers.....in the back of the book is a page by page mafteach... look up all the sources cited there and all the mefarshim on those sources....

and if you are going to tell me...just tell me/..... there is that wonderful gemara about prefering 1 kav you earned than 9 kavs
unearned.... some might claim nishtana hateva....

from all your deluge of questions here.....go learn more of less than less of more..
and not everything is scanned in the net...

and maybe you are in a diffewrent generation and maybe our resident TC here (see other thread) will answer you but I just work in the factory....
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Unread 08-24-2004, 08:44 AM   #4
Yankel Nosson
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Ach Gevurah...more time with the chassidim, less with the mekubalim. Chassidim -- the stress is on chesed.

Reminds of the story about the AR wanting to give the young Tzemach Tzedek a brocha for learning. The TzTz refused, saying that he wanted to earn it himself through his own yegiah. In his later and wiser years he (the TzTz) expressed regret over not taking the brocha. He realized that with the "gift" of his grandfather's brocha he would have been able to exert the same yegiah but acheived even greater things.

You're beginning to sound like you advocate the idea of a horse-drawn farm, where a Yid can spend 16 hours a day to raise a few cows and crop of avocados. Ahh--how delightful to hold the fruits of his hard labors in the palm of his hand, to taste the results of his sweat and toil, so much more meaningful than a trip down to the mountains of factory-farmed California avocados at the local Price Chopper. One kav indeed!

Aiyy...but if he would only buy a tractor, he would have a lot more time for Torah!

V'da"l.
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Last edited by Yankel Nosson; 08-24-2004 at 10:07 AM.
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Unread 08-24-2004, 08:57 AM   #5
Torah613
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LS v 35 p 206 footnote 6 (discussed on these boards a zillion times...).
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Unread 08-24-2004, 09:44 AM   #6
Yankel Nosson
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gevurah
and maybe you are in a different generation....
חטוף ואכול חטוף ואישתי דעלמא דאזלינן מיניה כהלולא דמי
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Unread 08-24-2004, 10:33 AM   #7
Gevurah
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I said TC would give a source.....which is prbably in the back of Share Emuna.... or searchable here as it is been coted zillion X

enough Yankele or do you see how this answers your question in the other thread as well...

Torah is sitting around selling money and I am in a factory..
and Vi is Masbir ? Oh Morenu Masbir don't cry over lakewoood...
come for Shabbas...
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Unread 08-25-2004, 10:35 PM   #8
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Re: Moshiach: Dovid Hamelech and Moshe Rabbeinu??

How did you know that I sell money for a living?
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Unread 05-29-2005, 11:45 AM   #9
Yankel Nosson
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Back to business

I came across the following passing references to this inyan, and I continue to seek elucidation.

In Kuntres Hilchasa L'Mashicha (R' Y.A. Heller) he brings two quotes from Kisvei Arizal:

1) "The Moshiach he is Moshe himself...only that she is his neshama l'neshama" (Likutei Torah)
2) "Moshe himself he is Moshiach, etc., but he is a higher level (b'china elyona), the level of neshama l'neshama" (Sefer HaGilgulim)

The Mitteler Rebbe writes in Biurei Zohar:
"[L'ag b'Omer] is the hillula of Rashbi nitzutz Moshe who is bchinas Moshiach...goel rishon and Moshiach goel acharon."

Is this saying that Moshe is but one aspect of Moshiach? Does it state explicity anywhere what bchina Dovid haMelech is?

Could this be connected to the idea the Rebbe brings out in the maamar V'Ata Tetzaveh, about the avoda of the Jews bringing the oil to Moshe brings a "hosafa" in Moshe? (Elevating Moshe to the level of Moshiach?)
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Unread 04-23-2006, 12:06 AM   #10
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Moshe Rabbeinu: Chochma of Atzilus
Dovid Hamelech: Malchus of Atzilus

Still looking for insights.
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Unread 04-25-2006, 03:03 PM   #11
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Moshe (345) + Dovid (14) = Moshiach (359, משיח + kolel)

Agav, why does the posek in Tehillim Dovid as פני משיחך?
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Unread 08-05-2008, 04:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankel Nosson View Post
Could someone explain this, that Moshiach is often referred to as "Dovid Malka Mashicha", bais Dovid, etc. At the same time we describe Moshe Rabbeinu, a"h, as goel rishon, goel acharon. I see that the Mittler Rebbe, in Sha'ar Ha'emuna (pay-tes, 1) brings down that the shoresh of Moshe is actually the same as that of Moshiach ("u'v'emes b'shoresh echad hem"). Fine -- if Moshe is the same shoresh as Moshiach; but, how does Dovid haMelech fit in?

Maybe this inyan is too deep for the shallow waters of my intellect, but at least let me ask....
Hi Yankel,

Good question deserves a good answer:
The meaning of Goiel Rishon Hu Goiel Acharon is that the Pnimius of Moshe is the Pnimius of Moshiach, to quote the Rebbe's words: "...And even though Moshe is from Shevet Levi, and Moshiach is from Shevet Yehuda, the Pnimius of Moshe is the Pnimius of Moshiach (and Begoluy), just in another Guf."

In the same manner, Dovid Hamelech is the same Pnimius as Moshe Rabeinu and Moshiach, which is the true meaning of Dovid Malka Meshicha.

Moreover, Moshiach is higher then Moshe, as Moshe is Bechinas Chaya and Moshiach is Bechinas Yechida, and Moshiach will teach Torah to everyone, including the Avos and Moshe Rabeinu.
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