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Unread 03-06-2011, 01:39 PM   #1
noahidelaws
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Hashgachah: milchigs vs. fleishigs

See here:
Quote:
Permanent supervision, or hashgachah temidis, is required for all meat establishments. We do not make any distinction concerning the ownership of the establishment. Even if the owner is an Orthodox Jew conversant in the laws of kashrus, we will not certify his establishment without a mashgiach temidi. The mashgiach is given the keys to all the storage areas where meat is kept (e.g., a freezer). The owner cannot open these storage areas. The mashgiach will be on premises as long as they are open. We do not require hashgachah temidis for a dairy restaurant if an Orthodox Jewish owner or employee is on premises at all times, but a mashgiach visits the location on a frequent basis. All other dairy restaurants must have permanent supervision.
Why should milchigs and fleishigs be different, such that for dairy hashgachah temidis is not required, but for meat it is? Shenanigans can happen with dairy too.
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Unread 03-06-2011, 03:14 PM   #2
danzinger
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just a wild guess: horse milk is difficult to come by... (unlike horse meat)
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Unread 03-06-2011, 03:15 PM   #3
MahTovChelkeinu
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Well it sounds like the reason for the mashgiach temidi is specifically related to the meat (making sure to verify that all the meat used is kosher, etc.), hence the mashgiach keeping the keys to the freezer, etc.

The cooking equipment isn't really so different from a factory where packaged food is prepared in that the mashgiach checks all ingredients and comes around frequently to check that nothing extra is brought in. But factories don't have hashgacha temidis either.

Given that the OK is not strictly chalav yisroel, the dairy products used by its customers are not so tempting to swap for cheaper treif products. Hence, there is less potential for "shenanigans."

For a chalav yisroel restaurant, one could argue that there is a need for stricter hashgacha. But I'm not sure that the standards in shulchan aruch for hashgacha temidis on Chalav Yisroel would extend to the same level as with meat.

Probably the reason why they are lenient regarding dairy restaurants where an orthodox Jew is present has to do with bishul akum... but that's just a guess. This is a relatively short clip and the OK policies are fairly well thought out.
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Unread 03-15-2011, 02:51 PM   #4
mendelp
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How about the dinim of bosor shenisalem min ho'ayin?
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Unread 04-04-2011, 01:39 PM   #5
Smirnoff
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כלשון כ"ק אדמו"ר מהוריי"ץ באג"ק חלק י' עמ' ריט [ונדפס ג"כ בהוספות ל"ביאורי הלכות בשו"ע אדמו"ר הזקן" עמ' רסז]: "... הוא דבר נכון במאד, ועדת חסידי חב"ד נזהרים בתקנה מסודרה מהוד כ"ק רבינו הזקן והחמירו בהנהגה זו הוד כ"ק אבותינו רבותינו הק' כל אחד בזמן נשיאותו..." ע"ש
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Unread 04-05-2011, 01:27 AM   #6
noahidelaws
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Thanks. Here's the full text:
Quote:
"במענה על כתבו... אודות התייסדות חנות בשר עם בית חרושת לוואורשט [=נקניק] עם שותפין יודעי מלאכת עשיית וואורשט, הוא דבר נכון במאוד, ועדת חסידי חב"ד נזהרים בתקנה מסודרה מהוד כ"ק רבינו הזקן, והחמירו בהנהגה זו הוד כ"ק אבותינו רבותינו הקדושים כל אחד בזמן נשיאותו, אשר העוסק במכירת בשר, או בתעשייה של בשר מעושן ובוואורשט, אשר גם אפילו המוחזק לירא אלוקים, יודע תורה ובעל מידות חסידות - צריך למשגיח תמידי [=הדגשת המערכת], ובוודאי ישמרו לקיים הנהגה מסודרה זו...". (מכתב למוה"ר אברהם-אהרן רובאשקין - אגרות-קודש כרך י עמ' ריט)
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