Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Halachah & Minhagim

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 07-06-2011, 09:51 PM   #1
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
Ghostwriting

Someone wants me to ghostwrite something for them. Was wondering: Is it perhaps ossur to put your name on something someone else actually wrote? And where do you draw the line--if you lightly edited it, is it then able to be considered your work, or only if it was heavily edited? Does anyone know of sources on this kind of thing?
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2011, 07:31 AM   #2
Kookoo Kabalist
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
I think ghostwriting is a relatively new concept. But then there's the issue of plagiary, rampant amongst mechabrey seforim...
Kookoo Kabalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-07-2011, 10:11 PM   #3
Coffee9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 12
Or, what about writing something with the intention of attributing it to another?
Coffee9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 01:20 AM   #4
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
Someone wants me to ghostwrite something for them. Was wondering: Is it perhaps ossur to put your name on something someone else actually wrote? And where do you draw the line--if you lightly edited it, is it then able to be considered your work, or only if it was heavily edited? Does anyone know of sources on this kind of thing?
Whose ideas are they - yours or his?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 11:35 AM   #5
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
What is the issur? Lying?
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #6
Kookoo Kabalist
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
What? Is lying asur?
Kookoo Kabalist is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 01:28 PM   #7
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingAxe View Post
What is the issur? Lying?
I can see an isse of gneivas da'as, perhaps. That is why I asked about whose ideas they are.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 03:14 PM   #8
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
Quote:
Whose ideas are they - yours or his?
In this case it involves translation.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 03:41 PM   #9
FlyingAxe
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 607
Didn't the Rebbe say that if saying something said in his name would result in the audience rejecting the message, one should not say where it came from? (Or maybe even to say that those were one's own thoughts? I don't remember.)
FlyingAxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 03:42 PM   #10
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
I don't think that's comparable.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 05:22 PM   #11
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
In this case it involves translation.
You are translating something he wrote? I don't think that is "ghostwriting". Is all that is missing is saying that you translated it? If you don't mind that, why would it be a problem, since it is his ideas and writings in translation?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-08-2011, 06:54 PM   #12
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
No, translating seforim.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-09-2011, 10:08 PM   #13
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Why would it be a problem?
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2011, 12:04 PM   #14
danzinger
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Is he publishing the English translation as if he wrote it himself or does he intend to write that he did the translation?
__________________
!חכמים, הזהרו בדבריכם
danzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #15
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
He's publishing it as if he wrote it, but he'll give me credit for helping. In reality, I will have written it, and he will have simply looked it over.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2011, 04:09 PM   #16
danzinger
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
That's not called ghostwriting...
כל האומר דבר בשם אומרו מביא גאולה לעולם
Sounds to me that that is hepech hageulah....
__________________
!חכמים, הזהרו בדבריכם
danzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2011, 05:35 PM   #17
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
Quote:
Originally Posted by noahidelaws View Post
He's publishing it as if he wrote it,
You meant to write "as if he translated it", correct?
Quote:
but he'll give me credit for helping. In reality, I will have written it, and he will have simply looked it over.
Meaning he will claim to have translated the original book?
I don't see the terrible problem since who careswho translates something?), but why can he not be honest about it?
And - I don't think that translating qualifies as ghostwriting - even when using a different name.
[Possibly danziger is saying the same].

Last edited by Torah613; 07-10-2011 at 06:49 PM.
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2011, 06:00 PM   #18
danzinger
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
You meant to write "as if he translated it", correct?Meaning he will claim to have translated the original book?
I don't see the terrible problem since wo cares who translates something?), but why can he not be honest about it?
And - I don't think that translating qualifies as ghostwriting - even when using a different name.
[Possibly danzinger is saying the same].
Danzinger understood something else, but your version is possibly more correct...
if "write" = "translate" then it is does not seem quite as serious. If the other guy is a more experienced and skilled translator, then taking credit (and responsibility) for your work after thorough editing could be acceptable and if he is a recognized translator of seforim and you are not then there may even be preference to having his name on the book (esp. for sales purposes). Same if he is a more noted T'Ch than you...
__________________
!חכמים, הזהרו בדבריכם
danzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2011, 06:24 AM   #19
mosheh5769
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,429
I am not sure of the exact definition of ghoswriting, but could we say that Rabbi Chaim Vital ghoswrote the Ariza'l, and that Reb Nosson ghostwrote Rebbe Nachman of Breslov?
__________________
כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעולם הבא
mosheh5769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2011, 08:49 AM   #20
Torah613
ChabadTalk.com Elder!
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,716
No, because it is known to everyone who reads the seforim (and obvious in the seforim themselves), that Kisvei Ari was not written by the Ariza'l, merely them transcribing what they heard from the Ari.
"Ghostwriting" usually means a book actually authored by A printed as if authored by B - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter
Torah613 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2011, 09:25 AM   #21
mosheh5769
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torah613 View Post
No, because it is known to everyone who reads the seforim (and obvious in the seforim themselves), that Kisvei Ari was not written by the Ariza'l, merely them transcribing what they heard from the Ari.
"Ghostwriting" usually means a book actually authored by A printed as if authored by B - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostwriter
Thank you for the clarification.
__________________
כל ישראל יש להם חלק לעולם הבא
mosheh5769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-24-2016, 03:04 PM   #22
Majorthinker
Executive Diamond Member
 
Majorthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,615
Huh. I do a lot of ghostwriting, and never thought it might be a problem halachically.

Was there a maskemet or am I supposed to ask a rav?
__________________
!חסידים איין משפחה
One big happy family!

הוי כתלמידיו של אהרן הכהן!
Majorthinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com