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Unread 01-17-2007, 04:20 PM   #1
Harvard
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Smile Regards from Israel

Hi Everybody,

My name is Yair and I've been born and raised in Israel. Currently, I live nearby Tel Aviv.

I'd be happy to take part in this forum and answer your questions regarding Israel and the Jewish life in the country.

Best,

Yair
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Unread 01-17-2007, 09:20 PM   #2
Aaronke
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Interesting! Did you hear about Daniel Gomez HY"D? He fell in Lebanon on the last day of the war last summer. He was a helicopter pilot and was related to me (I won't say how since I want to remain anonymous).
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Unread 01-18-2007, 03:14 AM   #3
noahidelaws
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I have a question about Jewish life in the Holy Land: How is it that people consistently put up with such frequent, intense horrendous, evil betrayal from their "leaders"? What happened to their brains?
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Unread 01-18-2007, 04:42 PM   #4
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What happened to the brains of the people in Soviet Russia?
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Unread 01-19-2007, 01:15 AM   #5
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Indeed, that's a most correct comparison.
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Unread 01-19-2007, 03:39 PM   #6
Harvard
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Hi Aaronke,

Indeed, I've heard about him, he was all over the news. I think that the Jewish people in Israel has this thing in common: they all mourn for every soldier who is killed and for every jewish person that dies.
In my opinion, that differs us from other nations. There's a good article, written by Efraim Kishon Z"L during the 70's, in which he claims that the Egyptians (it was during the hostility period between the countries) lies to themselves and ignore their deaths, while the israelis have much higher moral values.

Yair
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Unread 01-20-2007, 05:35 PM   #7
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Really? Maybe they mourn the death of soldiers (who are gov't property), but what about mourning the deaths of subhuman "settlers"? You won't see much of that.

(Large numbers of) Jews in Eretz Yisrael don't ignore the deaths of Jews?! What planet are you living on?? The traitors gave the murderers money, land, guns, and legitimacy, which the enemy used to murder many more Jews, and then the people voted for the traitors again, and that's not called ignoring the deaths of Jews?!

They exhibit ... "respect for Jewish life"?? "Moral values"?? Do you call voting for parties that promise to surrender vast (or even small) amounts of money, land, guns, and legitimacy to vile mass murderers showing "respect for Jewish life" and "moral values"?! Again, what happened to their brains? You didn't answer my question. Apparently you answer questions selectively.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 02:46 AM   #8
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Really? Maybe they mourn the death of soldiers (who are gov't property), but what about mourning the deaths of subhuman "settlers"? You won't see much of that.

(Large numbers of) Jews in Eretz Yisrael don't ignore the deaths of Jews?! What planet are you living on?? The traitors gave the murderers money, land, guns, and legitimacy, which the enemy used to murder many more Jews, and then the people voted for the traitors again, and that's not called ignoring the deaths of Jews?!

They exhibit ... "respect for Jewish life"?? "Moral values"?? Do you call voting for parties that promise to surrender vast (or even small) amounts of money, land, guns, and legitimacy to vile mass murderers showing "respect for Jewish life" and "moral values"?! Again, what happened to their brains? You didn't answer my question. Apparently you answer questions selectively.
I don't think he was trying to ignore your question. He is observing a true dichotomy, mourning over every soldier does take place, with pix of them on the front pages. Do the US papers have stories including pix of every US soldier that fell in Iraq? At the same time, the settlers are demonized and, even with regard to the soldiers, the policies that led to their deaths are ignored.

So it's a complicated situation in which most Israelis are not connecting the dots and realizing that their mourning over fallen soldiers is a waste of time if they're not prepared to elect leaders who will protect the soldiers who are still alive (kind of like Peres, YMSh, attending a commemeroration of the Shoa while setting the groundwork for another shoa, chas v'shalom).

This is why it's so important for settlers to stop using kedushat ha'aretz as their argument against OSLO and adopt the rebbe's approach of pikuach nefesh, to drive home to israelis what's at stake (although it's becoming more and more clear even to the Israelis with their heads in the sand where more land concessions are headed - to a war that Israel can't win, as the foreign armies will be starting with their tanks overlookin Tel Aviv & JM from a few kilometers away).
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Unread 01-21-2007, 06:43 AM   #9
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He answered Aaronke's question, but not mine. He did ignore it.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 04:04 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Frumkite View Post
I don't think he was trying to ignore your question. He is observing a true dichotomy, mourning over every soldier does take place, with pix of them on the front pages. Do the US papers have stories including pix of every US soldier that fell in Iraq? At the same time, the settlers are demonized and, even with regard to the soldiers, the policies that led to their deaths are ignored.

So it's a complicated situation in which most Israelis are not connecting the dots and realizing that their mourning over fallen soldiers is a waste of time if they're not prepared to elect leaders who will protect the soldiers who are still alive (kind of like Peres, YMSh, attending a commemeroration of the Shoa while setting the groundwork for another shoa, chas v'shalom).

This is why it's so important for settlers to stop using kedushat ha'aretz as their argument against OSLO and adopt the rebbe's approach of pikuach nefesh, to drive home to israelis what's at stake (although it's becoming more and more clear even to the Israelis with their heads in the sand where more land concessions are headed - to a war that Israel can't win, as the foreign armies will be starting with their tanks overlookin Tel Aviv & JM from a few kilometers away).
Frumkite, with all due respect to you, as a Lubavitcher chossid, how can you write ym'sh about a Jew, in light of the Rebbe's teachings about Ahavat Chinam in our generation?
Quote:
Ahavat Chinam in our generation even for people in the category of "moiser" and similar, see for example Likutei Sichot 1:133, 2:620, 27:297, 38:221 and Igrot Kodesh 4:440
www.otzar770.com
Also, Rebbe Nachman of Breslov teaches (and similar is taught in the Rebbe's sicha in Likutei Sichot, Shemot 36:1 for example) that part of the Mitzvah of belief in Hashem includes thinking and speaking in a manner that reflects that emunah and bitachon. I know it is easy for me to say, since I am in Canada and you are in Israel, but - I will say it anyways - there is no such thing as a war that Israel can't win. With G*d everything is possible.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 08:48 PM   #11
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Frumkite, with all due respect to you, as a Lubavitcher chossid, how can you write ym'sh about a Jew,
Frumkite is not a Lubavitcher Chossid.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 09:07 PM   #12
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Frumkite is not a Lubavitcher Chossid.
He/she claims to be one. how can you poselHim/Her?
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Unread 01-21-2007, 10:04 PM   #13
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Based on the things that they write. And shouldn't it be Him/Her/It?
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Unread 01-21-2007, 10:29 PM   #14
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The Frierdiker Rebbe said yemach shemo about the yevsektzia. This mafia is the modern-day yevsektzia. Of course ym"sh is appropriate.

I know Frumkite personally. He is a Lubavitcher Chossid. Maybe one who still has a lot to learn about limmud and darkei haChasidus, but then, don't we all. Anyway, let's stick to the topic.
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Unread 01-21-2007, 11:05 PM   #15
Torah613
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Noah - please stop your extrapolations. In all the sichos of the Rebbe about EY etc. (that you claim to follow and know), he never used such language. Just write "I, Noah, with my shikul hadaas, and superior Torah knowledge who is to know what the should be said today even though we never heard it from the Rebbe, feel that such language should be used".
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Unread 01-21-2007, 11:30 PM   #16
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I know Frumkite personally. He is a Lubavitcher Chossid.
Don't worry NL, I'll pull my hat down to my eyes, turn the brim down to my nose, sleep till noon, eat a sandwich, and then go into the beis hamikdash and run circles with the Moshiach flag for an hour before beginning shachrit, just to make Bittul happy.

Every mishichist I know is far more comfortable with such a person than with a halachic Jew keeping chabad minhagim and awaiting the Moshiach whoever he may be.
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Unread 01-22-2007, 12:19 AM   #17
Bittul
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We've been on this merry go round before, so Jewish, I will just say: Kite previously posted disrespectfully about the Lubavitcher Rebbe, which makes it no surprise that he posted the language you pointed out.
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Unread 01-22-2007, 10:20 PM   #18
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Based on the things that they write. And shouldn't it be Him/Her/It?
Do you think the Rebbe would approve of this statment?
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Unread 01-22-2007, 10:27 PM   #19
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The Frierdiker Rebbe said yemach shemo about the yevsektzia. This mafia is the modern-day yevsektzia. Of course ym"sh is appropriate.

I know Frumkite personally. He is a Lubavitcher Chossid. Maybe one who still has a lot to learn about limmud and darkei haChasidus, but then, don't we all. Anyway, let's stick to the topic.
Chazal taught us that 'dabar echad ledor' meaning one leader per generation. What the Previous Rebbe did in the previous generation of Chabad cannot be brought as a proof of what the Rebbe's teachings are for this current generation (I.e. the 7th and final generation of the exile)

If our Rebbe did not say ym'sh about any Jews in our generation, while he explicitly taught that one should do the opposite (in the sources cited above, for example) then it would seem to me, imho, that any one who cares to consider themself a Lubavitcher would be obligated to follow the directives of the Rebbe of this generation.

NL and Frumkite, I challenge you to bring us even one single source indicating that our Rebbe ever encouraged someone to say yms'h about any Jew in our generation.

Granted, the Torah provides for self defence and similar, but nowhere does it call for the hatred of a fellow Jew who (even if he becomes a rasha gamur) has inherited a Divine Neshama that is an entire world and will form a crown for the Ribbono Shel Olam in the Olam HaBa, iy'H.

See Tanya chapter 32 where the Admor HaZaken writes that one should hate the evil that has attached itself to the person, but not to hate the person (I.e. soul) itself.
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Unread 01-22-2007, 10:53 PM   #20
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Do you think the Rebbe would approve of this statment?
What was there not to approve of?
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Unread 01-22-2007, 11:20 PM   #21
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bichlal - i might be wrong, but based on what i've heard and know so far - the FR used the term yimach shemom on the yevsektzia as an organization, i don't think he ever used it on a specific person.

even if the comparison of the yevsektzia ym"s to the current israeli goverments is correct, (which is a discussion that i will leave to the smarter and wiser than me), i do not think that the term ym"s on a specific jew is allowed. how could you? based on everything the Rebbe teaches us how is it possible?
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Unread 01-22-2007, 11:25 PM   #22
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And not on a specific person (like referring to a govt) the Rebbe did use such an expression when the issue was yidden?
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Unread 01-22-2007, 11:32 PM   #23
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Tsfas: It's one thing to debate about whether it's appropriate and it's following loshon haRav, as Torah613 is arguing (and making a valid point). But "not allowed"?! Where do you get that from? Yemach shmo/m is an expression used (also) about rishei Yisroel by gedolei Yisroel. Deal with it. And the distinction between an individual and a group is observed.

Also, if you were a victim of such people, I doubt you'd have these qualms about such langauge.

Also, see the end of Tanya ch. 32 (yes, the one about ahavas Yisroel): "tachlis sinoh seneisim."
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Unread 01-23-2007, 12:07 AM   #24
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since when is tachlis sin'oh sneisim the same as shem reshoim yirkov of maseches yuma? and certainly not the same as mechias hashem.

i've got a question, before you started to brand around titles like that did you check up the din?

(sin'oh you could probably have, based on that tanya. espaecially in light of the Rebbe's biur that it reffers to masniim to other yiden, but to extrapolate to mechias hashem for that you must have breite pleitzes.)

i don't know you, but you seem to be someone who paskens by hergesh not by klolei hhahalacha.
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Unread 01-23-2007, 01:37 AM   #25
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since when is tachlis sin'oh sneisim the same as shem reshoim yirkov of maseches yuma? and certainly not the same as mechias hashem.

i've got a question, before you started to brand around titles like that did you check up the din?

(sin'oh you could probably have, based on that tanya. espaecially in light of the Rebbe's biur that it reffers to masniim to other yiden, but to extrapolate to mechias hashem for that you must have breite pleitzes.)

i don't know you, but you seem to be someone who paskens by hergesh not by klolei hhahalacha.
I remember a story where someone came to the Rebbe and asked that he daven that on of the Federation leaders in a New England town should die because he was rodef the frum Yidden and Yeshivas. The Rebbe answered that even if all of the complaints about this individual are correct, and even if he is 90 percent bad, he still has 10% good so how could one daven to eliminate that 10 %.
I think this is analygous to the people who are in leadership in Israel. Surely thay have more than 10% good.
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