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Unread 07-15-2003, 06:25 PM   #1
rosnec
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Post Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Israel Writes

In response to a letter of inquiry from Gil Student, R. Aharon Feldman, Rosh Yeshiva of Ner Israel in Baltimore, penned the attached response.

A Few Highlights In his letter, he expresses his opinion that while the view of Meshichistim that the Rebbe will be Mashiach is not heretical, nonetheless, Meshichistim should not be regarded as Torah authorities in any regard (though their shechita is kosher).

Interestingly, he considers anyone who believes that the Rebbe will be Mashiach a Meshichist. [I think that's about 90% to 95% of Lubavitchers.]

(How does his letter reflects on its petitioner, viz., Gil Student.)

Your thoughts?
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Last edited by rosnec; 07-15-2003 at 08:47 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 06:45 PM   #2
Jude
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Is that the same Aharon Feldman who years ago, wrote for a magazine published by Ohr Sameach called Shema Yisrael? In one of those issues Aharon Feldman, then rosh yeshiva of Ohr Sameach, wrote an article, where without referring to the fact that he was talking about Chasidus, mentioned the belief that G-d's presence is everywhere and in all things (i.e. tzimtzum sh'lo kepushuto) as pantheism and thus, apikorsus.

Are we at all interested in the views of someone, who after 250+ years of Chasidus can refer to the Baal Shem Tov's shita as apikorsus?

Last edited by Jude; 07-16-2003 at 11:27 AM.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 08:01 PM   #3
rebayzl
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Finally a Misnaged agrees that Messi¨nism is not Apikorsus but just a Shtus/Mistake, and they are still upset.

The upseting thing about this letter is how he calls the Rebbe "Harabi Hamanoach", without even Z"L.

Last edited by rebayzl; 07-15-2003 at 09:07 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 08:28 PM   #4
RebYid
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Quote:
Originally posted by rosnec
(How does his letter reflects on its petitioner, viz., Gil Student.)
How is this anything different to what GS writes?? Does he claim somewhere that M'n are apikorsim?

Last edited by RebYid; 07-15-2003 at 08:31 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 08:46 PM   #5
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I am wondering what motivated him to ask R Feldman for his opinion in terms of how to treat M's.

Is he trying to marshall the forces, a la Berger?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 08:52 PM   #6
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Marshall the forces? Name one Rov in the non-Lubavitch world who holds that the meshugas is legitimate.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 08:54 PM   #7
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I know a few Lubavitchers who who agree with what his maskonas too.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 09:02 PM   #8
rosnec
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Huh? "Marshal the forces" means to galvanize them into making public statements with the aim to ostracize the M's from Jewish public office. Like Berger (Although R Feldman concedes that he is by no means a gadol, nor 'even student of one'.

Clearly he did not go to R Feldman to seek his opinion about its legitimacy. Student seems to be taking his campaign from the halls of academia to the next level -- seizing the parnasa of the M's (which according to his definition, most Lubavitchers belong).

Last edited by rosnec; 07-15-2003 at 09:25 PM.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 09:17 PM   #9
BrookAve
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Give me lekach. Give me a Sunday dollar. Everyone agrees that this is what we are all looking forward to.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:06 PM   #10
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally posted by rebayzl
Finally a Misnaged agrees that Messi¨nism is not Apikorsus but just a Shtus/Mistake, and they are still upset.

The upseting thing about this letter is how he calls the Rebbe "Harabi Hamanoach", without even Z"L.
Why should he be frummer (more respectfull) than most who call themself L Chassidim?
Or: Maybe he is a closet M't?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:09 PM   #11
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What bothers me about the letter, is that he falls into the trap of the M'n, by bringing a proof from the Rambam "nehrag", when he should have brought "lo hitzliach ad koy".
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:19 PM   #12
Leayis
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interesting that this admitted non-godol who right after the addmission proceeds to offer an opinion that he says belongs to gedolim, says that if we were dealing with someone in the caliber of daniel then it is ok to say that he can come back to be moshiach. i have a feeling that he does not exactly agree with gil student. (BTW does any one remember my argument with rebyid wether gil student is a soneh gomur of the rebbe and lubavitch?) rebyid, are you here?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:22 PM   #13
RebYid
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You mean the neshoma de'ban?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:24 PM   #14
Leayis
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no i mean you. you are certainly way off on that one. i think i know a soneh from a freind. and it does not take me long to figure it out.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:27 PM   #15
Torah613
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Wow! Morech vadoin!
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:30 PM   #16
RebYid
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Eleswhere, you called ME a neshoma de'ban, I'm still trying to get over that insult. I hold your opinion is such high regard.

Anyway, I don't know GS but I don't think he's a soneh Chabad. He is NOT a Lubavitcher, so obviously he does not agree with somethings in Chabad. But so what? I'm not a Gerrer Chosid, but would that calls me as a soneh?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:31 PM   #17
Leayis
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morech vadoin? no, its simple logic.vand if i remember corectly you agreed with my assesment og gil student during that heated debate, or was it masbir?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:32 PM   #18
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It was Masbir, he agrees with a lot of what you say. It's a bit of a worry.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:33 PM   #19
Leayis
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actually i was not reffering to you when i said neshomo deban, i was reffering to the actual neshomo deban. where was that any way?
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:36 PM   #20
Torah613
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis
morech vadoin? no, its simple logic.vand if i remember corectly you agreed with my assesment og gil student during that heated debate, or was it masbir?
No, not me.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:39 PM   #21
RebYid
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leayis
actually i was not reffering to you when i said neshomo deban, i was reffering to the actual neshomo deban. where was that any way?
Seems to have been deleted. I guess they didn't like the insult to the neshomas de'ban.

BTW, a Lub I know is well acquainted with GS, and tells me he is NO soneh!
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:40 PM   #22
Leayis
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nuch a gullible yutz.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:42 PM   #23
RebYid
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No this guy is NOT a yutz.
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:46 PM   #24
Torah613
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Ah machlokes haposkim...
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Unread 07-15-2003, 10:47 PM   #25
masbir
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Rebyid you worry to much. (OTH, what do I care)

The reasons he gives, stinks to high heaven.

In his view, which reflects Shachs view, the Rebbe cant be Mashiach due to his shortcomings, not becuase of legal or technical reasons.

According him, which contemporry person can be moshiach?

It reminds me, of what a friend of mine, not a Lubaviticher and talmid of Ponovizh, told me last week what happened when Shach said in the mems, that if Lubavitch says the Rebbe is Mashiach its Apokrosos. The guy said that Ponevizh was in tormoil to understand the pesak of "Moron". As the guy put it me, some Lamdan who in is great love for moron, cooked up utter nonsnese (this is my friend words), and said, that since the RMBm writes that whoever belittles Mashiach is a Kofer in Beis Dovid, and since "we" misnagdim think that the Rebbe is (CV) not up to par, therefore from our perspective this is considered apikorosos!

Even they think its crazy.
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