Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk  

Go Back   Jewish Forum & Discussions - Chabad Talk > Torah and Judaism > Yiddishkeit > Noahide - Bnei Noach

Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Unread 08-04-2002, 10:13 PM   #1
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
Study of Torah by Non-Jews

My understanding is that non-Jews can study Torah that is relevant to them. Chassidus largely speaks of G-d's unity, creation, providence, etc. therefore it is relevant to non-Jews and they can study it. However, it doesn't seem that anyone outside of Lubavitch mentions this, and some disagree when asked. Can one of the more knowledgable people, such as masbir, rebayzl, rebyoel, etc. please explain this?
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-05-2002, 12:01 PM   #2
vusveisichuber
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 293
It is not Torah study that is permitted for them, per se; it is only practical instruction that is permitted, as far as I know - but I too eagerly await the responses of the more knowledgeable!
__________________
LA"D (Kimuvon)
vusveisichuber is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-26-2002, 01:59 AM   #3
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
I managed to get an answer from a Rov who is knowledgable enough to give a ruling on this matter. Thanks.
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-26-2002, 02:11 AM   #4
RebYid
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,141
Can we hear what it was??
RebYid is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-26-2002, 02:39 PM   #5
lambda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,284
The answer was that a non-Jew, even one who is not in the process of conversion, can study those parts of the Torah that deal with the unity of G-d, how G-d controls the world, etc. but that things specifically dealing with the mitzvos that a Jew has to do, and the reasons behind them, are generally out of bounds.
lambda is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-30-2002, 07:21 AM   #6
walter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 193
from a gentiles point of view

[quote]Originally posted by lambda
but that things specifically dealing with the mitzvos that a Jew has to do, and the reasons behind them, are generally out of bounds.
[/QUOTE
If the gentile is sincere and shows an intense respect and love for Torah nothing should be with- held from their Torah education. This is only my humble opinion. Yes.., I understand what your saying Noahide.., but Halacha means nothing to a Bnei Noah. If they wish to learn Torah he/she will do so. Better they learn it from a skilled hand than through the back door. Also read the oringinator of this thread.., He did not ask what "Halacha" rules about the gentile's right to study Torah.
__________________
ger ani ki ba'aretz al taster mimeni mitzvotsecha

Last edited by walter; 10-11-2002 at 02:54 PM.
walter is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-01-2002, 07:39 PM   #7
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D walter - the issue is what HALACHA (Jewish Law) permits. Anything else is your personal opinion.

What lambda quoted above is consistent with the Rebbe's sichos.

The same ruling is made in the book "the Path of the Righteous Gentile", ( http://www.moshiach.com/action/morality/in-depth.asp ) whose author (Rabbi Ya'akov Rogalski) was instructed by the Rebbe to show it to R. Feldman of Baltimore for approval, which he did, and the letter of approval is printed therein.
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 09-18-2002, 10:23 AM   #8
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D This post of mine is relevant here:
<<The unprecedented phenomenon of widespread interest in Judaism amongst gentiles is an expression of the inner desire to find the Noahide Code, the Law of the Torah which is binding on all gentiles.

Any gentile who comes to a Chabad House should be warmly invited to join the Noahide Bible Study Class regularly taught by the Chabad House Rabbi.

If by some strange, inexplicable oversight none yet exists, one should be immediately created.


The Rebbe says that gentiles SHOULD be taught any Torah that strengthens:

a) the actual observance of the Noahide laws and all their many ramifications,

b) the belief in their underlying basis - "Torah and Moshe Rabbeinu" i.e. Rabbinic authority alone,

c) the belief in Hashem's Absolute Unity,

d) worthy character traits and behaviours,

e) belief in the coming of Moshiach and everything which that entails.>>
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-02-2003, 11:27 PM   #9
icewolf770
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 274
i have a friend who is not jewish and she is interested in judaisum and wants to know more about it... but she cannot seem to differentiate what is jewish and what is from the catholic church.... in regards to the torah and all the translations it has gone thru... also she is still attached to yushka... when she asks me questions... what can i reasonably say with out causing confusion and/or continued disscusion on that conversation?
__________________
ettah m.
icewolf770 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-03-2003, 01:06 AM   #10
shliach770
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally posted by lambda
The answer was that a non-Jew, even one who is not in the process of conversion, can study those parts of the Torah that deal with the unity of G-d, how G-d controls the world, etc. but that things specifically dealing with the mitzvos that a Jew has to do, and the reasons behind them, are generally out of bounds.
Are we allowed to know the name of the Rov??
shliach770 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-03-2003, 09:15 AM   #11
yehonasan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
Icewolf: How is she confused? On what issues? There are some fairly comprehensive books on Judaism that she could read. IF she is truly interested, she will read the books. If all she wants is covnersation "here or there" on issues, then just give her stuff on sheva mitzvos b'nei Noach.

One book that I know gairim read is To Be a Jew by Rabbi Donin. I am sure participants here can give other suggestions.
__________________
Achdus Yisroel!
yehonasan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-12-2003, 07:35 PM   #12
icewolf770
Executive Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 274
i have loaned her many books and she herself has gone out and sought out books by reputable jewish authors on judaism.....
__________________
ettah m.
icewolf770 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-13-2003, 12:15 AM   #13
noahidelaws
Executive Platinum Member
 
noahidelaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,479
BS"D So she'll surely come around and accept the Noahide Code in the near future, you'll see! But until then, and even after, it's important that she maintains contact and receives guidance from Orthodox Jews, or she may go astray. Wishing you success in that!
noahidelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2003, 08:21 PM   #14
Joshua Ben Noah
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24
Re: from a gentiles point of view

[quote]Originally posted by walter
Quote:
Originally posted by lambda
[/QUOTE
If the gentile is sincere and shows an intense respect and love for Torah nothing should be with- held from their Torah education. This is only my humble opinion. Yes.., I understand what your saying Noahide.., but Halacha means nothing to a Bnei Noah. If they wish to learn Torah he/she will do so. Better they learn it from a skilled hand than through the back door. Also read the oringinator of this thread.., He did not ask what "Halacha" rules about the gentile's right to study Torah.
I am in complete agreement. I am a brand new Noahide and The L_rd has blessed me through The Whole Torah!

Shalom
__________________
"...the eyes of The L_rd range over the entire earth to give support to those who are wholeheartedly with Him...(IIChron. 16:9.
Joshua Ben Noah is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-20-2003, 07:41 PM   #15
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
From a public address of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, 19 Kislev, 5743:

"Each of the concepts--spreading wellsprings, and outward--carries within it a unique import. The word 'wellsprings' refers to the source of Torah. Though there is an aspect of Torah that can be compared to a broad river, its source is a wellspring from which water spurts forth in individual drops.

"'Spreading' implies taking those wellsprings and spreading them all over the world with no boundaries or limits. 'Outward' means extending oneself beyond one's natural place. 'Spreading the wellsprings' should extend beyond one's home and family, to every Jew--and to the entire world.

"The spreading of the wellsprings of Hassidus should not be limited to Jews alone, but should be extended outward even to gentiles.... The purpose of the giving of the Torah was to create peace in the world. Similarly, the Rambam writes that every Jew is obligated to try to influence the gentiles to fulfill the Seven Noahide Laws. Furthermore, one of the achievements of Moshiach will be, as the Rambam writes, to refine and elevate the gentiles until they also become aware of G-d, to the point where G-dliness will be revealed 'to all flesh,' even to gentiles.

"Since the rewards of Torah come measure for measure, it follows that among the efforts to bring the Messianic age must be the efforts to spread the Seven Noahide Laws, including spreading the wellsprings associated with them, outward to the gentiles. Indeed, the prophets tell us: 'Nations shall walk following your light.' Though Torah was given to the Jews, it will also serve as a light to gentiles."

1 Devarim [Deuteronomy] 1:3, 5
2 Shemos [Exodus] 6:6-7
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2003, 10:54 AM   #16
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
I am learning Sha'ar Ha'Yichud with a fellow at work (not Jewish, Hindu actually).

He asked me if I had any tapes for him to listen to in his car.

Would a cassette of niggunim be appropriate?
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2003, 02:08 PM   #17
Jude
Executive Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,345
did he say he wants to hear music or did he mean Torah tapes?
Jude is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2003, 02:14 PM   #18
rebayzl
Senior Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,354
Quote:
Originally posted by Yankel Nosson
I am learning Sha'ar Ha'Yichud with a fellow at work (not Jewish, Hindu actually).

He asked me if I had any tapes for him to listen to in his car.

Would a cassette of niggunim be appropriate?
Karlebach only.
rebayzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-14-2003, 02:36 PM   #19
Yankel Nosson
Senior Platinum Member
 
Yankel Nosson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,259
Quote:
Originally posted by Jude
did he say he wants to hear music or did he mean Torah tapes?
Both, but since English is not his first language, he would probably lean more towards music.

rebayzl, are you joking?
__________________
Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev
Yankel Nosson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jokes (3) CyberLub General 619 02-06-2017 06:45 PM
Halachic Relevance of Decisions On Philosophical Issues noahidelaws Hashkafah 29 01-16-2013 07:06 AM
The "Rashbatz" - HaRav Shmuel Betzalel rebyoel Stories about the Rabbeim and Chassidim 1 02-10-2006 03:19 AM
Yud Shevat 5730 - the Sefer Torah to Greet Moshiach Jude The World of Lubavitch 4 02-01-2004 02:36 PM
Rambam: Intro by R. Kapach to his edition RebLazer General 2 06-23-2002 01:35 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001 - 2016 ChabadTalk.com