Entertainment for Frum Kids - Jewish Forum & Discussions

Jude · 11-11-2003, 04:30 PM

Somebody gave me an earful about how upset she and her husband are at the entertainment provided by Tzivos Hashem for events in Crown Heights. She mentioned a juggling show that was performed on Lag B'Omer and said her son hasn't stopped referring to it. He asks whether he can be a clown when he grows up. Also a trampoline show which had a father and son team, the son was about 7, the age of some of the little kids watching it.

There are a number of issues she pointed out:

1) is juggling (or bike stunts, or horse stunts or ..) appropriate entertainment for Lag B'Omer?

2) the goyish, loud music they sometimes use

3) are seven year old performers (or goyim, or are they Jews who look like goyim) the role models we want for our kids?

4) sometimes a performer speaks, as part of his show, and is clueless as to what our kids can and can't hear (even though whoever hires them probably tells them something, or at least you hope they do). They make references to TV figures, make risque or not-aidel remarks. (I once attended a Purim program in which the juggler's "body language" at one point was inappropriate)

She has no objections to a bachur juggling, so the problem is not solely in the juggling part of it, but the appropriateness to the occasion.

She's all in favor of bachurim plays. As to the objection of - they should be learning - apparently the Rebbe approved of bachurim working on Lag B'Omer floats. Purim and Chanuka plays seem fine too, when not done during seder.

Her husband once left in the middle of an Uncle Moishy concert with his kids bec. he felt that the side shows (not U.Moishy) were inappropriate for some of the above-stated reasons.

She has complained to Tzivos Hashem but met with no success. She spoke with numerous mechanchim who all agreed with her.

Another aspect - she pointed out that at rallies, when kids say the 12 Pesukim, how many kids besides the one using the microphone say it too? Or are they busy looking around? How can they be more fully engaged?

Did the Rebbe approve of a juggler performing in 770 at a rally? (I've seen it)

What do you think?

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jude

She has complained to Tzivos Hashem but met with no success. She spoke with numerous mechanchim who all agreed with her.

So the mechaninchim are not running it. The Rabonim are not running it. Who is? Do you see a pattern here?

Jude · 11-11-2003, 05:18 PM

the "customers" are the parents whom T.H. tries to please
most customers have no complaints
will these customers be receptive to input from mechanchim and rabbonim? I think some will, but apparently not enough for the rabbonim to venture their opinion. They have bigger problems to deal with and aren't going to make a showdown over a juggler.

p.s. the woman told me that in making her calls, someone said - do you know what happened years ago? B.R. (by mistake, no doubt) had men and women performing together in some act! Her taina was that the "show does not go on," rather they should have been paid and asked to leave

btw - you didn't offer your opinion on what you consider suitable entertainment for frum kids

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 05:23 PM

But that's the problem. WHO is TH? Why are they independent from Mechanchim and Rabonim?

Jude · 11-11-2003, 06:12 PM

could very well be they have a rabbinic board but ... - see previous post

iamachassid · 11-11-2003, 06:38 PM

Jude, I agree 100% with that woman. I went with one school to the lag baomer parade and the entertainment could have been a lot better and I don't think it was even age appropriate, I think it was too old for most of the kids there. But, what are our options? What will we do if we don't have the acrobats and jugglers? Say the pesukim, hear a story and make a brocha acharona and that's it? Where do we have the talent and resources to make our own entertainment? I heard Exodus the pesach play was a big hit. Is there any way we can develop something like that for every program?

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 06:44 PM

Jude, why deal with the symptoms when you should be dealing with the underlying cause? Is it your mussar background?

Torah613 · 11-11-2003, 07:21 PM

You have a similar problem with the camps, namely, years ago a hike or rowboating qualified as a trip; today only an expensive amusement park full of sights that are inappropiate for the campers and/ or counslors is considered a decent trip... How were kids entertained at rallies/gatherings years ago (when some of us were kids

)?

Jude · 11-11-2003, 07:42 PM

In that conversation with her, I brought up camps too and said that years ago, you went to camp. Now, the excitement is LEAVING camp grounds for day trips and overnights

.

Re symptoms etc. - I don't think that what you mentioned is the only underlying cause. I think parental ignorance and apathy are more the issue. If a grassroots movement began in which parents said we don't want this, we don't need this, things would work out just fine - far better than imposed by rabbonim. After all, whether or not to have a juggler is not a halachic issue, and once it moves from the realm of halacha into what is more or less suitable, rabbonim are not going to impose their views.

as for suggestions for Lag B'Omer - who says entertainment is needed at all?
when I went to elementary school, Lag B'Omer was about outings to parks. This is a minhag Yisrael for Lag B'Omer and it should be re-instated.

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jude
I think parental ignorance and apathy are more the issue.

And in which mosdos did these ignorant and apathetic parents grow up?

Jude · 11-11-2003, 08:02 PM

and in which homes were they raised?

you can also ask - where were the mechanchim and rabbonim she consulted with educated?

this particular couple I refer to are baalei teshuva, kol ha'kavod to them!

iamachassid · 11-11-2003, 08:03 PM

So Jude, you think the kids should say the pesukim, hear a story, make a bracha acharona and then go to a park? ANd I don't know about the rest of C.H. but I'm a bit leery of rabbinic involvment which usually translates as an unproffesional mess and politics

roza · 11-11-2003, 08:09 PM

I think nature trips are more suitable and educational. Children love them, because it's a change of enviroment and fun. children love nature, new places, it's in tune with their natural desire for exploring, teaches them about the buity of Hashem's creation. I don't know why parents don't go to nature places so much.

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by iamachassid
rabbinic involvment ... usually translates as an unproffesional mess and politics

Need we say more?

rebayzl · 11-11-2003, 09:16 PM

I wonder waht the new Children Museum will look like?

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 09:34 PM

All those millions of dollars should get you quite a large crowd of jugglers and clowns.

BrookAve · 11-11-2003, 09:46 PM

And popcorn and cotton candy and candy apples and sheitel clips.

shoyn · 11-11-2003, 09:55 PM

children museum

RebYid · 11-11-2003, 10:26 PM

$25,000,000. A bargain!

BrookAve · 11-11-2003, 10:49 PM

I miss Ess and Bentch. I hope knocking it down was worth it.

roza · 11-12-2003, 01:14 AM

will there be enough parking for visitors?

shoyn · 11-12-2003, 05:12 AM

at least this topic hasn't been recycled in the last 6 months.....

shoyn · 11-12-2003, 05:15 AM

11-11-2003, 04:30 PM	#1
Jude Executive Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,345	Entertainment for Frum Kids Somebody gave me an earful about how upset she and her husband are at the entertainment provided by Tzivos Hashem for events in Crown Heights. She mentioned a juggling show that was performed on Lag B'Omer and said her son hasn't stopped referring to it. He asks whether he can be a clown when he grows up. Also a trampoline show which had a father and son team, the son was about 7, the age of some of the little kids watching it. There are a number of issues she pointed out: 1) is juggling (or bike stunts, or horse stunts or ..) appropriate entertainment for Lag B'Omer? 2) the goyish, loud music they sometimes use 3) are seven year old performers (or goyim, or are they Jews who look like goyim) the role models we want for our kids? 4) sometimes a performer speaks, as part of his show, and is clueless as to what our kids can and can't hear (even though whoever hires them probably tells them something, or at least you hope they do). They make references to TV figures, make risque or not-aidel remarks. (I once attended a Purim program in which the juggler's "body language" at one point was inappropriate) She has no objections to a bachur juggling, so the problem is not solely in the juggling part of it, but the appropriateness to the occasion. She's all in favor of bachurim plays. As to the objection of - they should be learning - apparently the Rebbe approved of bachurim working on Lag B'Omer floats. Purim and Chanuka plays seem fine too, when not done during seder. Her husband once left in the middle of an Uncle Moishy concert with his kids bec. he felt that the side shows (not U.Moishy) were inappropriate for some of the above-stated reasons. She has complained to Tzivos Hashem but met with no success. She spoke with numerous mechanchim who all agreed with her. Another aspect - she pointed out that at rallies, when kids say the 12 Pesukim, how many kids besides the one using the microphone say it too? Or are they busy looking around? How can they be more fully engaged? Did the Rebbe approve of a juggler performing in 770 at a rally? (I've seen it) What do you think?

11-11-2003, 06:38 PM	#6
iamachassid Diamond Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,395	Jude, I agree 100% with that woman. I went with one school to the lag baomer parade and the entertainment could have been a lot better and I don't think it was even age appropriate, I think it was too old for most of the kids there. But, what are our options? What will we do if we don't have the acrobats and jugglers? Say the pesukim, hear a story and make a brocha acharona and that's it? Where do we have the talent and resources to make our own entertainment? I heard Exodus the pesach play was a big hit. Is there any way we can develop something like that for every program? __________________ Before you go to bed give your troubles to G-d, He will be up all night anyway.

11-11-2003, 07:21 PM	#8
Torah613 ChabadTalk.com Elder! Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 11,716	You have a similar problem with the camps, namely, years ago a hike or rowboating qualified as a trip; today only an expensive amusement park full of sights that are inappropiate for the campers and/ or counslors is considered a decent trip... How were kids entertained at rallies/gatherings years ago (when some of us were kids)?

11-11-2003, 08:03 PM	#12
iamachassid Diamond Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,395	So Jude, you think the kids should say the pesukim, hear a story, make a bracha acharona and then go to a park? ANd I don't know about the rest of C.H. but I'm a bit leery of rabbinic involvment which usually translates as an unproffesional mess and politics __________________ Before you go to bed give your troubles to G-d, He will be up all night anyway.

11-11-2003, 08:09 PM	#13
roza Silver Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 639	I think nature trips are more suitable and educational. Children love them, because it's a change of enviroment and fun. children love nature, new places, it's in tune with their natural desire for exploring, teaches them about the buity of Hashem's creation. I don't know why parents don't go to nature places so much. __________________ אמר הרבי מקוצק: לא כל מה שחושבין נכון לומר. לא כל מה שמדברים .נכון לכתוב. לא כל מה שכותבין נכון להדפיס

11-11-2003, 05:18 PM	#3
Jude Executive Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,345	the "customers" are the parents whom T.H. tries to please most customers have no complaints will these customers be receptive to input from mechanchim and rabbonim? I think some will, but apparently not enough for the rabbonim to venture their opinion. They have bigger problems to deal with and aren't going to make a showdown over a juggler. p.s. the woman told me that in making her calls, someone said - do you know what happened years ago? B.R. (by mistake, no doubt) had men and women performing together in some act! Her taina was that the "show does not go on," rather they should have been paid and asked to leave btw - you didn't offer your opinion on what you consider suitable entertainment for frum kids

11-11-2003, 05:23 PM	#4
RebYid Senior Diamond Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,141	But that's the problem. WHO is TH? Why are they independent from Mechanchim and Rabonim?

11-11-2003, 06:12 PM	#5
Jude Executive Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,345	could very well be they have a rabbinic board but ... - see previous post

11-11-2003, 06:44 PM	#7
RebYid Senior Diamond Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,141	Jude, why deal with the symptoms when you should be dealing with the underlying cause? Is it your mussar background?

11-11-2003, 07:42 PM	#9
Jude Executive Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,345	In that conversation with her, I brought up camps too and said that years ago, you went to camp. Now, the excitement is LEAVING camp grounds for day trips and overnights . Re symptoms etc. - I don't think that what you mentioned is the only underlying cause. I think parental ignorance and apathy are more the issue. If a grassroots movement began in which parents said we don't want this, we don't need this, things would work out just fine - far better than imposed by rabbonim. After all, whether or not to have a juggler is not a halachic issue, and once it moves from the realm of halacha into what is more or less suitable, rabbonim are not going to impose their views. as for suggestions for Lag B'Omer - who says entertainment is needed at all? when I went to elementary school, Lag B'Omer was about outings to parks. This is a minhag Yisrael for Lag B'Omer and it should be re-instated.

11-11-2003, 08:02 PM	#11
Jude Executive Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8,345	and in which homes were they raised? you can also ask - where were the mechanchim and rabbonim she consulted with educated? this particular couple I refer to are baalei teshuva, kol ha'kavod to them!

11-11-2003, 09:16 PM	#15
rebayzl Senior Diamond Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,354	I wonder waht the new Children Museum will look like?

11-11-2003, 09:34 PM	#16
RebYid Senior Diamond Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,141	All those millions of dollars should get you quite a large crowd of jugglers and clowns. Last edited by RebYid; 11-11-2003 at 09:43 PM.

11-11-2003, 09:46 PM	#17
BrookAve Silver Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 647	And popcorn and cotton candy and candy apples and sheitel clips.

11-11-2003, 09:55 PM	#18
shoyn Diamond Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,121	children museum

11-11-2003, 10:26 PM	#19
RebYid Senior Diamond Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 2,141	$25,000,000. A bargain! Last edited by RebYid; 11-11-2003 at 11:13 PM.

11-11-2003, 10:49 PM	#20
BrookAve Silver Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 647	I miss Ess and Bentch. I hope knocking it down was worth it.

11-12-2003, 01:14 AM	#21
roza Silver Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 639	will there be enough parking for visitors? __________________ אמר הרבי מקוצק: לא כל מה שחושבין נכון לומר. לא כל מה שמדברים .נכון לכתוב. לא כל מה שכותבין נכון להדפיס

11-12-2003, 05:12 AM	#22
shoyn Diamond Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,121	at least this topic hasn't been recycled in the last 6 months.....

11-12-2003, 05:15 AM	#23
shoyn Diamond Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,121	more on the museum.....

11-12-2003, 10:06 AM	#24
Yankel Nosson Senior Platinum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,259	They made a nice website: http://www.jcmonline.org/ __________________ Chassidim must study Chassidus--HaYom Yom 21Kislev

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