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Unread 12-03-2012, 12:48 PM   #1
Toviah
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To Have or Have Not Expectations From Hashem

The Rebbe (0f blessed memory) in his writings says "Live a supernatural life and Hashem will provide miracles."

Rabbi Nachman, on the other hand, says "have your aspirations but no expectations."

These seem to me to be conflicting sentiments. I have always wanted to live a supernatural life and encounter miracles of the bells and whistles kind (a close encounter with a Maggid or a Navi or something like that.) This is my expectation of what leading a supernatural life will lead to. Evidence of other dimensions.

On the other hand, I'm discouraged from having such an expectation by Rabbi Nachman, who I admire almost as much as The Rebbe.

So should I live a supernatural life looking -- not for the small, everyday miracles that Hashem constantly provides -- but the big ones. Or should I have no expectations and not live a supernatural life?
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Unread 12-03-2012, 04:16 PM   #2
Intrigued
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You can't follow the advice of two doctors at once.

R' Nachman of Breslov spoke to his generation.
The Rebbe speaks to our generation.

Our generation is different.
The Previous Rebbe, for example, did not suggest living above nature. He asked his Chassidim to stand firm in the confrontation with nature and the way of the world, knowing full well that in many cases the Chassidim would not succeed in overcoming the opposition.

Our generation is different, the advice is different.

Though our Sages taught: "Do not rely on miracles." This refers to something which he, himself, would consider a miracle. However, after miracles have become one's nature, one can rely on such miracles in the future. Furthermore, one can proceed to even higher and more miraculous levels.
(http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books...lish/41/15.htm)


We have the potential to "live with the Redemption," to experience a foretaste of this era, at present. In this manner, one can "satisfy the desires of both Haman and Mordechai": one can live in the material world (Haman's desire), and yet appreciate the spiritual nature of material reality, realizing how in fact it is not separate from G-dliness.
(http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books...lish/51/08.htm)
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Unread 12-03-2012, 07:43 PM   #3
noahidelaws
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-You say that the Rebbe says, "Live a supernatural life and Hashem will provide miracles." Can you please quote the source of this for me?

-One should choose one derech and follow it, not mix them; see here.

-You have already posted on this topic before, here.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 10:05 AM   #4
Toviah
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From Tzvi Freeman of the Chabad organization. Number 45
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Unread 12-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #5
noahidelaws
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Number 45 of what?
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Unread 12-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #6
Toviah
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source of quote

Lead a supernatural life and G‑d will provide the miracles.

« Previous The Inexplicable

Next » All the World Is My Teacher


http://w3.chabad.org/media/images/272/Tpwe2727114.jpg Based on letters and talks of the Rebbe, Rabbi M. M. Schneerson

From the wisdom of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, of righteous memory; words and condensation by Rabbi Tzvi Freeman. To order Rabbi Freeman’s book, Bringing Heaven Down to Earth, click here.
More articles by Tzvi Freeman | RSS
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Unread 12-05-2012, 10:29 PM   #7
Torah613
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Thats not a quote. Those are cutesy adaptions/slimmed down "versions" of things the Rebbe may or may not have said.
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Unread 04-21-2016, 12:37 PM   #8
Majorthinker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrigued View Post
You can't follow the advice of two doctors at once.

R' Nachman of Breslov spoke to his generation.
The Rebbe speaks to our generation.

Our generation is different.
Who says that the advice is generation-specific? Rebbe Nachman's generation may not have been the Rebbe's, but [I think] it was the Alter Rebbe's. According to your quote, the A"R and Rebbe Nachman should be giving the *same* advice in nearly everything - because they are speaking to the same generation. Pshita, that this is not so.

Meaning, it's not generation-specific.

Each neshama is connected to a different leader; there are Rebbe Nachman neshamot out there who would not fare well in Chabad (kfira, I know), and Rebbe Nachman speaks to his chassidim, past and present. Just like our Rebbeim speak to us, their chassidim, and the A"R's writings hold true for us dor shvi'iniks, too.

And, what does it mean, "Our generation is different?"

First of all, says who?
And second, with regards to what?

T613, excellent. It is my honor to agree.
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Unread 04-21-2016, 03:39 PM   #9
rebyoel
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Quote:
a close encounter with a Maggid or a Navi or something like that.
You gotta be kidding. This isn't the Rebbe's intention at all. In fact the Rebbe related the following story (I'm typing it from memory from the new volume of miluim to sichos kodesh):

The Cherkaser once came to Lubavitch to visit the Tzemach Tzedek and found out that there was a guy sure he's about to see Eliyahu hanavi. He already did everything needed, and was just waiting for the right moment... The cherkaser went upstairs (of the shul I suppose), and called the Jew by his first name.

The Jew was so full of himself that he was rattled, how can someone call him by his first name - but since he knew Kabbalah, he recalled that words of Rashi who heard a voice calling him by his first name, and said "שמע מינא קוב"ה" - this must be Hashem himself! This Jew repeated the words of the Zohar verbatim and exclaimed also: This voice must be Hashem himself - wow!

The cherkaser then poured water on him and said "Tahor Tahor"...

Later he bragged to the Tzemach Tzedek and the Cherkaser, that hashem revealed himself to him and sprinkled pure water on him... like the Posuk says וזרקתי עליכם מים טהורים וטהרתם....

***

The sicha you mentioned is now here, I think the Rebbe is referring to a different type of miracle - miracles en-clothed in nature. I.e. we should have trust in Hashem to get out of impossible situations, even if naturally it doesn't seem to be doable without a miraculous intervention by Hashem.

This is the approach is similar to "Tracht Gut Vet Zayn Gut" (think good and it will be good), but it does not refer to other-worldy experiences etc.

I don't know if there's a source that Rav Nachman would disagree with such Bitachon. In fact, IIRC he said that if you really have faith you don't need to go to a doctor - Hashem will heal you.

Quote:
"מגנה מאד מאד ענין הרפואות ודאקטורים והזהיר מאד מאד... ואפילו מי שיש לו חולה בתוך ביתו ואפילו אם החולאת חזק ח"ו ר"ל, אף על פי כן ישליך על ה' יהבו וישען באלוקיו לבד ואל יעסוק ברפואות ודוקטורים כלל".
Powerful words!

The Rebbe on the other hand, always advised going to doctors, and through them Hashem can provide the miracle.

It seems that the Rebbe and Rav Nachman have opposite approaches on this subject... I'm also not sure this is connected to different generations. Rather, within Torah you have various paths, and there can be more than one legitimate one נהרא נהרא ופשטיה.
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Unread 04-21-2016, 03:41 PM   #10
rebyoel
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I found the source of the story about the Cherkaser online:

http://www.yomanim.com/index.php?tit...9B%D7%94%D7%9F

http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pagefeed/...g_4580_495.pdf
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